1
00:00:09,444 --> 00:00:11,489
<i>Some breaking news out of
Long Island, New York.</i>

2
00:00:13,187 --> 00:00:16,406
I'd like to report that
we found human remains.

3
00:00:16,407 --> 00:00:18,191
<i>Four bodies wrapped in burlap,</i>

4
00:00:18,192 --> 00:00:19,889
<i>dumped alongside Ocean Parkway.</i>

5
00:00:21,238 --> 00:00:22,630
The so-called "Gilgo Four"

6
00:00:22,631 --> 00:00:24,545
<i>were all petite women,</i>

7
00:00:24,546 --> 00:00:27,418
<i>all under five foot five,
and they were all sex workers.</i>

8
00:00:28,332 --> 00:00:30,507
<i>Police excavate an
apparent serial killer's</i>

9
00:00:30,508 --> 00:00:31,422
dumping ground.

10
00:00:32,771 --> 00:00:35,165
The murders of two more women.

11
00:00:35,687 --> 00:00:37,427
Bringing the total number
to six.

12
00:00:37,428 --> 00:00:40,604
Now to a major development in
the Gilgo Beach murder case.

13
00:00:40,605 --> 00:00:42,519
<i>A seventh murder.</i>

14
00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:46,610
Find this killer before
he strikes and hurts

15
00:00:46,611 --> 00:00:49,440
and murders someone
that you love.

16
00:00:51,486 --> 00:00:53,487
<i>And then, after 13 years,</i>

17
00:00:53,488 --> 00:00:55,402
this bombshell drops.

18
00:00:55,403 --> 00:00:57,360
<i>Major break in a cold case,</i>

19
00:00:57,361 --> 00:01:00,276
<i>a suspect now under
arrest in connection</i>

20
00:01:00,277 --> 00:01:02,497
<i>to the unsolved
Gilgo Beach murder.</i>

21
00:01:03,237 --> 00:01:05,194
<i>Rex Heuermann,
a longtime resident</i>

22
00:01:05,195 --> 00:01:07,675
<i>of Massapequa Park, Long Island.</i>

23
00:01:07,676 --> 00:01:10,982
<i>The 59-year-old architect
and father of two.</i>

24
00:01:10,983 --> 00:01:13,986
Rex Heuermann is a demon
that walks among us.

25
00:01:14,944 --> 00:01:17,902
This is like a modern
day horror story.

26
00:01:17,903 --> 00:01:19,513
<i>The idea that the wife
didn't know anything</i>

27
00:01:19,514 --> 00:01:21,777
<i>about what he was doing
is hard to believe.</i>

28
00:01:23,039 --> 00:01:25,693
They're telling me that
my husband is alleged

29
00:01:25,694 --> 00:01:28,392
to be some horrific
serial killer.

30
00:01:29,132 --> 00:01:32,743
<i>No freaking way is
this man going out,</i>

31
00:01:32,744 --> 00:01:35,311
soliciting sex from a
sex worker, killing them,

32
00:01:35,312 --> 00:01:37,488
and dumping them on Gilgo Beach.

33
00:01:39,969 --> 00:01:43,928
He had a room specifically
built in his basement

34
00:01:43,929 --> 00:01:46,932
<i>that even his wife was
not allowed to enter.</i>

35
00:01:48,978 --> 00:01:51,110
<i>We recovered numerous
electronic devices</i>

36
00:01:51,111 --> 00:01:54,591
from the defendant, including
laptops, smartphones, tablets.

37
00:01:54,592 --> 00:01:57,986
<i>Investigators were able
to forensically extract</i>

38
00:01:57,987 --> 00:01:59,292
<i>this planning document.</i>

39
00:01:59,293 --> 00:02:00,728
<i>He's getting drop cloths.</i>

40
00:02:00,729 --> 00:02:02,817
<i>He's getting booties
for his shoes,</i>

41
00:02:02,818 --> 00:02:06,125
hairnets so that his hair
won't get on the victim,

42
00:02:06,126 --> 00:02:07,343
or so he hopes.

43
00:02:07,344 --> 00:02:09,780
Investigators say
they matched hair fibers

44
00:02:09,781 --> 00:02:12,174
<i>that were found at six of
the seven crime scenes.</i>

45
00:02:12,175 --> 00:02:15,091
They matched this DNA to
Rex Heuermann and his family.

46
00:02:20,140 --> 00:02:23,229
<i>It's so hard to even
believe the fact that,</i>

47
00:02:23,230 --> 00:02:25,753
<i>you know, he's
this sick killer.</i>

48
00:02:25,754 --> 00:02:27,189
<i>Prosecutors saying this,</i>

49
00:02:27,190 --> 00:02:30,236
but my memory says this.

50
00:02:30,237 --> 00:02:32,760
<i>Prosecutors in Suffolk
County say they are ready</i>

51
00:02:32,761 --> 00:02:35,545
to take accused Gilgo Beach
serial killer Rex Heuermann

52
00:02:35,546 --> 00:02:38,287
<i>to trial for the
murders of seven women.</i>

53
00:02:38,288 --> 00:02:40,942
<i>Heuermann has
pleaded not guilty.</i>

54
00:02:40,943 --> 00:02:44,293
Rex would have to tell me

55
00:02:44,294 --> 00:02:46,034
face to face

56
00:02:46,035 --> 00:02:49,037
<i>that he killed these girls</i>

57
00:02:49,038 --> 00:02:50,474
<i>for me to believe it.</i>

58
00:02:53,651 --> 00:02:55,304
No, it's...

59
00:02:55,305 --> 00:02:57,394
I don't believe
my husband did this.

60
00:03:40,132 --> 00:03:42,656
<i>Today could mark
a pivotal moment</i>

61
00:03:42,657 --> 00:03:45,225
<i>to a case that's rocked the
tri-state area for years.</i>

62
00:03:45,834 --> 00:03:47,965
<i>This morning, a possible
change of plea</i>

63
00:03:47,966 --> 00:03:51,491
<i>for accused Gilgo Beach
serial killer Rex Heuermann.</i>

64
00:03:51,492 --> 00:03:54,189
<i>At 11:00 AM,
he is expected to confess to</i>

65
00:03:54,190 --> 00:03:57,061
<i>and admit to each of
the murders in court.</i>

66
00:03:57,062 --> 00:03:59,238
<i>But his attorney,
not yet commenting.</i>

67
00:03:59,239 --> 00:04:02,284
<i>Heuermann is accused of killing
seven female sex workers</i>

68
00:04:02,285 --> 00:04:04,547
<i>whose remains were
found near Gilgo Beach</i>

69
00:04:04,548 --> 00:04:06,506
<i>and elsewhere on Long
Island, New York,</i>

70
00:04:06,507 --> 00:04:09,639
<i>between 1993 and 2010.</i>

71
00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:12,773
Heuermann's family
meanwhile has not commented

72
00:04:12,774 --> 00:04:14,471
on the expected plea today.

73
00:04:27,136 --> 00:04:28,528
You just gotta back up
for a few minutes.

74
00:04:28,529 --> 00:04:29,660
Let her get out of
the car, please.

75
00:04:30,095 --> 00:04:31,095
After we have the
proceedings today,

76
00:04:31,096 --> 00:04:32,532
we'll have a statements to make.

77
00:04:32,533 --> 00:04:34,664
Both, myself and Asa will
make a statement, okay?

78
00:04:34,665 --> 00:04:35,535
Just say one thing today?

79
00:04:35,536 --> 00:04:37,014
Say one thing?

80
00:04:37,015 --> 00:04:38,407
There's nothing to say
at this point,

81
00:04:38,408 --> 00:04:39,278
we don't know what's gonna
happen at 11 o'clock.

82
00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:39,844
Come on.
Good morning, Laura.

83
00:04:40,845 --> 00:04:41,759
Jody.

84
00:05:05,174 --> 00:05:06,610
What was the question?
Just go ahead.

85
00:05:07,916 --> 00:05:09,873
They've been processing
this for the past 33 months.

86
00:05:09,874 --> 00:05:11,310
We're prepared for
whatever's gonna go on

87
00:05:11,311 --> 00:05:12,659
in the courtroom today.

88
00:05:12,660 --> 00:05:15,488
Asa and Victoria both
prepared for that

89
00:05:15,489 --> 00:05:18,142
and she has said
consistently since day one,

90
00:05:18,143 --> 00:05:19,579
she wants to hear this
and see this play out

91
00:05:19,580 --> 00:05:20,842
in the courtroom.

92
00:05:52,308 --> 00:05:53,527
Coming out, judge.

93
00:06:21,293 --> 00:06:22,816
My name is Bob Macedonio.

94
00:06:22,817 --> 00:06:24,252
<i>I'm an attorney.</i>

95
00:06:24,253 --> 00:06:26,167
<i>I practice in the areas
of criminal defense,</i>

96
00:06:26,168 --> 00:06:28,083
matrimonial and
family court work.

97
00:06:32,435 --> 00:06:34,218
<i>Rex, did you do it?</i>

98
00:06:34,219 --> 00:06:36,525
<i>Less than 48 hours after
Rex Heuermann's arrest,</i>

99
00:06:36,526 --> 00:06:38,745
<i>my firm received a
call from Asa Ellerup,</i>

100
00:06:38,746 --> 00:06:40,529
<i>who was Rex Heuermann's wife.</i>

101
00:06:40,530 --> 00:06:41,835
<i>Asa would like me to express</i>

102
00:06:41,836 --> 00:06:43,924
she's going through a
very difficult time.

103
00:06:43,925 --> 00:06:46,709
When we first were
retained by Ms. Ellerup,

104
00:06:46,710 --> 00:06:49,583
<i>the media frenzy was chaotic.</i>

105
00:06:50,061 --> 00:06:51,061
<i>Rex Heuermann's wife</i>

106
00:06:51,062 --> 00:06:52,454
<i>and the suspect's adult stepson</i>

107
00:06:52,455 --> 00:06:54,892
<i>was seen crying on
the front porch.</i>

108
00:06:55,589 --> 00:06:57,459
They were parked outside of
her office across the street.

109
00:06:57,460 --> 00:07:00,114
They followed her 24/7.

110
00:07:00,115 --> 00:07:03,118
<i>They were stationed outside of
her house for months on end.</i>

111
00:07:12,780 --> 00:07:14,911
<i>My office played every
role for the family.</i>

112
00:07:14,912 --> 00:07:17,044
<i>We were therapists.
We were counselors.</i>

113
00:07:17,045 --> 00:07:19,350
<i>We were financially
helping them.</i>

114
00:07:19,351 --> 00:07:20,787
There was no money.

115
00:07:20,788 --> 00:07:23,834
Rex was the sole financial
supporter of the family.

116
00:07:24,444 --> 00:07:26,532
<i>Victoria worked for Rex.</i>

117
00:07:26,533 --> 00:07:28,534
<i>Her job was obviously terminated</i>

118
00:07:28,535 --> 00:07:30,754
when they arrested Rex
and the office was closed.

119
00:07:36,064 --> 00:07:39,632
<i>You have a family completely
turned upside down</i>

120
00:07:39,633 --> 00:07:41,851
and it basically says the way
you think you've been living

121
00:07:41,852 --> 00:07:43,200
for the past 30 years

122
00:07:43,201 --> 00:07:45,115
is not really what's
been happening.

123
00:07:45,116 --> 00:07:47,554
So they were distraught,

124
00:07:48,990 --> 00:07:51,774
<i>and I personally thought
they needed professional help</i>

125
00:07:51,775 --> 00:07:54,908
<i>with the psychological issues
that they're dealing with.</i>

126
00:07:54,909 --> 00:07:56,997
<i>So I brought in Alison Winter,
who's a therapist</i>

127
00:07:56,998 --> 00:08:00,043
that my partner and I have
known for 20-plus years

128
00:08:00,044 --> 00:08:02,177
and works with a
lot of our clients.

129
00:08:02,830 --> 00:08:03,960
<i>We trust her.</i>

130
00:08:06,181 --> 00:08:07,443
You're on speaker.

131
00:08:07,922 --> 00:08:09,488
I'm Alison Winter.

132
00:08:09,489 --> 00:08:12,013
I'm a psychotherapist and
I'm a family counselor.

133
00:08:12,927 --> 00:08:15,842
Bob Macedonio calls
me up and asks...

134
00:08:15,843 --> 00:08:17,409
MACEDONIO [ON PHONE}:
<i>Have you ever heard of the
Gilgo Beach murders?</i>

135
00:08:18,323 --> 00:08:20,543
I said, "Yes, of course."
And he said...

136
00:08:21,501 --> 00:08:23,024
MACEDONIO [ON PHONE}:
<i>I need you to take on
the family.</i>

137
00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:25,155
At this point,

138
00:08:25,156 --> 00:08:27,418
<i>their friends wanted
nothing to do with them.</i>

139
00:08:27,419 --> 00:08:29,595
<i>Their family wanted
nothing to do with them,</i>

140
00:08:29,596 --> 00:08:31,815
and they really needed
someone they can speak with.

141
00:08:32,947 --> 00:08:36,732
I am grounded in family work.

142
00:08:36,733 --> 00:08:40,388
<i>It's important for me to
understand the dynamic</i>

143
00:08:40,389 --> 00:08:43,217
<i>they were living in as a
daughter, as a wife,</i>

144
00:08:43,218 --> 00:08:44,566
<i>as a son.</i>

145
00:08:44,567 --> 00:08:47,004
<i>So Rex had to be a
part of this process.</i>

146
00:08:50,442 --> 00:08:52,226
Sure.

147
00:08:52,227 --> 00:08:53,270
Absolutely.

148
00:09:09,897 --> 00:09:12,420
<i>After the second search
of the Heuermann home,</i>

149
00:09:12,421 --> 00:09:14,509
<i>and about a year after
the arrest,</i>

150
00:09:14,510 --> 00:09:15,466
<i>Rex is done.</i>

151
00:09:15,467 --> 00:09:16,773
<i>He's tired.</i>

152
00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:20,210
<i>Rex shares with me
he'd had a conversation</i>

153
00:09:20,211 --> 00:09:21,603
<i>with his lawyer.</i>

154
00:09:21,604 --> 00:09:23,170
<i>He sat Mike Brown
down and he said,</i>

155
00:09:23,171 --> 00:09:27,609
"I need to tell you that
I'm guilty of all of this."

156
00:09:27,610 --> 00:09:30,917
<i>And he said, "I had to
tell him certain things,"</i>

157
00:09:30,918 --> 00:09:32,484
were his words.

158
00:09:33,181 --> 00:09:36,575
<i>So in the spring of 2025,
Rex Heuermann,</i>

159
00:09:36,576 --> 00:09:39,665
through his attorney, starts
discussing a proffer agreement

160
00:09:39,666 --> 00:09:41,102
<i>with the District
Attorney's Office.</i>

161
00:09:41,798 --> 00:09:43,669
<i>And what a proffer agreement is,</i>

162
00:09:43,670 --> 00:09:46,585
<i>is a defendant on any
criminal case will come over</i>

163
00:09:46,586 --> 00:09:49,109
and meet with the
detectives or the task force

164
00:09:49,110 --> 00:09:52,547
<i>in a fashion that is protected</i>

165
00:09:52,548 --> 00:09:55,985
<i>to the extent anything that
is said at that proffer</i>

166
00:09:55,986 --> 00:09:59,467
would not be able to
be used at a trial

167
00:09:59,468 --> 00:10:00,860
against Rex Heuermann.

168
00:10:00,861 --> 00:10:03,166
The proffer sessions
sets the table

169
00:10:03,167 --> 00:10:04,604
for plea negotiations to begin.

170
00:10:06,344 --> 00:10:07,736
<i>And we say plea negotiations,</i>

171
00:10:07,737 --> 00:10:09,608
<i>we're not talking
lightening of a sentence.</i>

172
00:10:09,609 --> 00:10:11,610
<i>You're doing life in
jail without parole.</i>

173
00:10:11,611 --> 00:10:13,350
<i>That's not going to change,</i>

174
00:10:13,351 --> 00:10:17,616
but there is a benefit to
both sides to have a plea.

175
00:10:17,617 --> 00:10:20,619
You're sparing seven victims'
families from hearing

176
00:10:20,620 --> 00:10:22,533
<i>the gory, graphic details</i>

177
00:10:22,534 --> 00:10:23,709
<i>of what happened
to their children,</i>

178
00:10:23,710 --> 00:10:25,407
<i>their sisters, their moms.</i>

179
00:10:28,018 --> 00:10:30,063
<i>The potential benefit
to Rex would be</i>

180
00:10:30,064 --> 00:10:33,936
you could kind of negotiate
where you will be sentenced

181
00:10:33,937 --> 00:10:35,504
and how your sentence
will be served.

182
00:10:36,374 --> 00:10:38,724
<i>Also, the benefit
to Rex is to protect</i>

183
00:10:38,725 --> 00:10:40,335
<i>the narrative of what
his family hears.</i>

184
00:10:41,815 --> 00:10:44,338
<i>Whatever love they
have left for him,</i>

185
00:10:44,339 --> 00:10:46,906
<i>I believe would be erased
if they heard the details</i>

186
00:10:46,907 --> 00:10:49,649
of what he did to
these young ladies.

187
00:11:02,662 --> 00:11:03,531
Come in.

188
00:11:03,532 --> 00:11:05,881
Hey. Hi.

189
00:11:05,882 --> 00:11:07,491
Asa, how are you?

190
00:11:07,492 --> 00:11:08,580
Good to see you.

191
00:11:10,147 --> 00:11:11,626
Here, have a seat.

192
00:11:11,627 --> 00:11:13,149
So good to see you.

193
00:11:13,150 --> 00:11:16,631
One of the conditions
Rex had to take a plea

194
00:11:16,632 --> 00:11:19,678
was to meet with his wife
and his daughter separately

195
00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:22,550
<i>in a private meeting before
making a public plea.</i>

196
00:11:22,551 --> 00:11:24,813
And he would answer
any questions.

197
00:11:24,814 --> 00:11:26,032
Nobody knows about this meeting.

198
00:11:26,033 --> 00:11:27,511
This was set up by Rex.

199
00:11:27,512 --> 00:11:31,428
He's been very supportive
to the process of

200
00:11:31,429 --> 00:11:33,953
sitting with you

201
00:11:33,954 --> 00:11:36,782
so you can hear the
truth from his mouth

202
00:11:36,783 --> 00:11:38,349
because you need that.

203
00:11:38,915 --> 00:11:40,089
I do.

204
00:11:40,090 --> 00:11:44,441
To believe, to live,
to grow, to heal.

205
00:11:44,442 --> 00:11:45,791
And you need to
hear it from him.

206
00:11:45,792 --> 00:11:47,009
- Yes.
- And he owes you that.

207
00:11:47,010 --> 00:11:48,141
He owes you that.

208
00:11:48,142 --> 00:11:50,186
He does owe you.
- Yes.

209
00:11:50,187 --> 00:11:53,146
<i>I want to hear
the truth, period.</i>

210
00:11:53,147 --> 00:11:57,759
I'm going to this meeting
because I need to hear it.

211
00:11:57,760 --> 00:11:59,152
I wanna hear it from his mouth.

212
00:11:59,153 --> 00:12:00,196
Okay.

213
00:12:00,197 --> 00:12:02,459
Because hearing him tell me,

214
00:12:02,460 --> 00:12:04,724
am I going to see it?

215
00:12:07,770 --> 00:12:10,163
We've worked so hard
for this to happen.

216
00:12:10,164 --> 00:12:11,207
This is unprecedented.

217
00:12:11,208 --> 00:12:12,296
It is.

218
00:12:24,395 --> 00:12:27,789
Early on when I recognized
that as long as Rex

219
00:12:27,790 --> 00:12:30,879
was going to keep
lying to his wife,

220
00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:34,535
there was no way I was
gonna be able to ground her

221
00:12:34,536 --> 00:12:36,494
because he has such a
big influence on her.

222
00:12:37,278 --> 00:12:39,366
Anything Rex said
overwrote everything.

223
00:12:39,367 --> 00:12:40,759
So it wasn't denial.

224
00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:41,803
It was real to her.

225
00:12:41,804 --> 00:12:43,239
My husband's a family man.

226
00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:44,763
He's incapable of this.

227
00:12:44,764 --> 00:12:47,635
So I knew the more Rex
fed her that "I'm innocent,"

228
00:12:47,636 --> 00:12:49,376
<i>she wouldn't be able to move on,</i>

229
00:12:49,377 --> 00:12:52,945
<i>and ultimately, that would've
destroyed her existence.</i>

230
00:12:52,946 --> 00:12:55,774
She needs to live and
accept what she can

231
00:12:55,775 --> 00:12:57,167
and she needs to move forward.

232
00:12:58,516 --> 00:13:00,909
We've been working
for a very long time,

233
00:13:00,910 --> 00:13:03,433
two years and one month

234
00:13:03,434 --> 00:13:05,001
to get to this moment.

235
00:13:05,654 --> 00:13:07,611
I'm scared.

236
00:13:07,612 --> 00:13:10,266
There's no doubt about that.

237
00:13:10,267 --> 00:13:12,834
I'm nervous,

238
00:13:12,835 --> 00:13:15,271
but I have questions to ask

239
00:13:15,272 --> 00:13:18,362
and I'm gonna need him
to answer them for me.

240
00:13:18,885 --> 00:13:21,583
Number one is, "Did you
kill any of these women?"

241
00:13:23,063 --> 00:13:24,454
Then there would be,

242
00:13:24,455 --> 00:13:28,024
"Okay, how many of these
women did you kill?"

243
00:13:33,073 --> 00:13:37,425
I need to hear from him
whether he did this or not.

244
00:13:38,295 --> 00:13:40,558
I can't process things
I don't know.

245
00:13:40,950 --> 00:13:43,822
Well, a process is
to see the truth,

246
00:13:43,823 --> 00:13:45,736
hear the truth.

247
00:13:45,737 --> 00:13:49,828
<i>The hardest part of this whole
story is that it's possible</i>

248
00:13:49,829 --> 00:13:52,569
that I was married for 29 years

249
00:13:52,570 --> 00:13:54,834
to a serial killer.

250
00:14:17,465 --> 00:14:19,988
<i>Well, I mean, you're
in the end of discovery.</i>

251
00:14:19,989 --> 00:14:22,164
<i>We're entering trial phase.</i>

252
00:14:22,165 --> 00:14:24,079
<i>And when you talk about
the number of witnesses,</i>

253
00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:25,994
<i>the number of
documents in this case,</i>

254
00:14:25,995 --> 00:14:28,606
<i>it's a dizzying
amount of information.</i>

255
00:14:29,172 --> 00:14:30,346
Without a doubt,

256
00:14:30,347 --> 00:14:31,957
the Long Island
Serial Killer case

257
00:14:31,958 --> 00:14:34,307
and the trial of Rex Heuermann
is going to be the biggest

258
00:14:34,308 --> 00:14:36,005
in Long Island history.

259
00:14:36,484 --> 00:14:38,006
<i>We'll have over a
hundred witnesses</i>

260
00:14:38,007 --> 00:14:40,140
<i>coming in from 15
different states.</i>

261
00:14:40,792 --> 00:14:44,099
There's never been
so much interest

262
00:14:44,100 --> 00:14:46,886
<i>and controversy
surrounding a case.</i>

263
00:14:47,408 --> 00:14:49,452
I mean, Gloria Allred showed up

264
00:14:49,453 --> 00:14:51,977
to advocate for the
victim's families.

265
00:14:51,978 --> 00:14:54,414
The courthouse door
should never be shut

266
00:14:54,415 --> 00:14:58,766
to any woman who is
victimized by gender violence.

267
00:14:58,767 --> 00:15:01,116
It is long overdue
to provide justice

268
00:15:01,117 --> 00:15:04,599
for vulnerable women who
are missing and murdered.

269
00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:07,818
<i>We gave the defense
well over 100 terabytes</i>

270
00:15:07,819 --> 00:15:09,472
<i>of information alone.</i>

271
00:15:09,473 --> 00:15:11,387
<i>And if you took a terabyte</i>

272
00:15:11,388 --> 00:15:14,173
<i>and you printed out
all that information,</i>

273
00:15:14,174 --> 00:15:16,915
<i>it'd take you about
6.5 million pages.</i>

274
00:15:16,916 --> 00:15:20,049
<i>So we have well over
120 of those terabytes.</i>

275
00:15:21,137 --> 00:15:23,225
It's going to be one
bombshell after the next.

276
00:15:23,226 --> 00:15:24,923
<i>All these questions we have,</i>

277
00:15:24,924 --> 00:15:26,881
<i>everything we've been
speculating about.</i>

278
00:15:26,882 --> 00:15:27,882
<i>If there is a trial,</i>

279
00:15:27,883 --> 00:15:29,362
<i>they will have to be addressed.</i>

280
00:15:29,363 --> 00:15:31,233
<i>Everything we don't know about,</i>

281
00:15:31,234 --> 00:15:34,149
<i>all the evidence they have
that we're imagining they have,</i>

282
00:15:34,150 --> 00:15:35,238
we're gonna find out.

283
00:15:47,990 --> 00:15:49,643
<i>Rex Heuermann's
attorneys are pushing</i>

284
00:15:49,644 --> 00:15:52,211
<i>to hold as many as five trials.</i>

285
00:15:52,212 --> 00:15:53,647
<i>Trial one,</i>

286
00:15:53,648 --> 00:15:55,257
<i>the first three of the
Gilgo Four discovered,</i>

287
00:15:55,258 --> 00:15:57,520
<i>Amber Costello, Megan Waterman,
and Melissa Barthelemy.</i>

288
00:15:57,521 --> 00:15:59,653
<i>A second trial for
Maureen Brainard-Barnes.</i>

289
00:15:59,654 --> 00:16:00,959
<i>And third, fourth,
and fifth trials</i>

290
00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:02,699
<i>for Jessica Taylor,
Sandra Costilla,</i>

291
00:16:02,700 --> 00:16:03,962
<i>and Valerie Mack.</i>

292
00:16:03,963 --> 00:16:06,660
The danger of having
count after count,

293
00:16:06,661 --> 00:16:09,968
victim after victim
in the same trial

294
00:16:09,969 --> 00:16:12,493
is that "smoke, there's
fire" mentality.

295
00:16:13,059 --> 00:16:14,582
<i>They shouldn't be
tried together.</i>

296
00:16:34,732 --> 00:16:36,082
Asa, have a seat.

297
00:16:48,529 --> 00:16:49,268
Long day.

298
00:16:49,269 --> 00:16:50,921
Yes.

299
00:16:50,922 --> 00:16:52,924
It's not every day you get
to sit with a serial killer.

300
00:16:54,622 --> 00:16:56,624
What was the hardest
part for you to hear?

301
00:16:57,146 --> 00:16:59,148
Well, I put a wall up.

302
00:17:00,236 --> 00:17:01,628
What do you mean
you put a wall up?

303
00:17:01,629 --> 00:17:03,021
She called him
Mr. Heuermann.

304
00:17:03,022 --> 00:17:05,240
So his response was,

305
00:17:05,241 --> 00:17:07,373
"Oh, are we formal now,

306
00:17:07,374 --> 00:17:09,157
Mrs. Ellerup?"

307
00:17:09,158 --> 00:17:10,289
Did you feel you
were sitting

308
00:17:10,290 --> 00:17:11,856
across the table
from a stranger?

309
00:17:13,771 --> 00:17:15,033
No.

310
00:17:15,034 --> 00:17:16,338
When he started talking,

311
00:17:16,339 --> 00:17:18,688
it started feeling like
that's the Rex I know.

312
00:17:18,689 --> 00:17:20,168
But I didn't wanna see that one,

313
00:17:20,169 --> 00:17:22,128
I wanted to see the
one I needed to see.

314
00:17:27,742 --> 00:17:29,438
He looked very nervous.

315
00:17:29,439 --> 00:17:31,440
Very, very nervous.

316
00:17:31,441 --> 00:17:34,052
And I said to him,

317
00:17:34,053 --> 00:17:35,793
"So, Mr. Heuermann,

318
00:17:37,926 --> 00:17:39,884
I understand that you are

319
00:17:41,756 --> 00:17:44,758
confessing to me
on these murders.

320
00:17:44,759 --> 00:17:45,933
Can you please tell me

321
00:17:45,934 --> 00:17:47,891
how many of these
women did you kill?"

322
00:17:47,892 --> 00:17:48,893
He said, "Eight."

323
00:17:54,638 --> 00:17:56,249
No, he just told
me the answer.

324
00:17:58,381 --> 00:17:59,947
He said he killed eight women.

325
00:17:59,948 --> 00:18:01,905
Eight.

326
00:18:01,906 --> 00:18:02,906
Who was the eighth?

327
00:18:02,907 --> 00:18:03,603
'Cause he's charged with seven.

328
00:18:03,604 --> 00:18:05,127
I didn't ask.

329
00:18:05,954 --> 00:18:07,521
He sat and told you
he killed eight.

330
00:18:09,349 --> 00:18:13,614
He said I wasn't home
during all of them.

331
00:18:14,658 --> 00:18:16,094
<i>Were any of them killed
in the house?</i>

332
00:18:16,095 --> 00:18:17,399
<i>He said yes,</i>

333
00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:18,271
<i>they were killed in
his room downstairs.</i>

334
00:18:19,098 --> 00:18:20,664
<i>All except one.</i>

335
00:18:21,622 --> 00:18:25,321
<i>He said that he killed
Sandra Costilla in the Dodge.</i>

336
00:18:26,105 --> 00:18:27,758
<i>That was his first murder...</i>

337
00:18:28,585 --> 00:18:31,022
before I married him.

338
00:18:34,548 --> 00:18:36,592
I said, uh,

339
00:18:36,593 --> 00:18:39,291
"They said that you
dismembered some bodies,

340
00:18:39,292 --> 00:18:40,683
did you dismember them?"

341
00:18:40,684 --> 00:18:42,033
And he said, "Yes, I did it."

342
00:18:43,122 --> 00:18:44,600
There are certain things,

343
00:18:44,601 --> 00:18:46,341
certain questions
that I believed.

344
00:18:46,342 --> 00:18:49,998
Others, I'm not 100% sure.

345
00:18:50,564 --> 00:18:53,174
He said he never really
intentionally

346
00:18:53,175 --> 00:18:54,697
tried to kill these women.

347
00:18:54,698 --> 00:18:56,482
He says he just killed them.

348
00:18:56,483 --> 00:18:57,961
- No.
- But he doesn't,

349
00:18:57,962 --> 00:19:02,315
he doesn't know how
he killed them.

350
00:19:02,706 --> 00:19:04,098
That's what you heard?

351
00:19:04,099 --> 00:19:05,621
No. Is-is-is...

352
00:19:05,622 --> 00:19:06,883
I didn't hear that.

353
00:19:06,884 --> 00:19:08,102
What did you hear?

354
00:19:08,103 --> 00:19:09,451
He said, "The first one,

355
00:19:09,452 --> 00:19:12,019
<i>I had no idea I was
gonna kill at that time.</i>

356
00:19:12,020 --> 00:19:14,022
<i>I just randomly did it."</i>

357
00:19:14,936 --> 00:19:17,591
<i>But the others, he
planned to kill them.</i>

358
00:19:17,982 --> 00:19:19,331
<i>I mean, some women,</i>

359
00:19:19,332 --> 00:19:21,724
<i>he had sex with and
he didn't kill them.</i>

360
00:19:21,725 --> 00:19:23,117
<i>And he said that,</i>

361
00:19:23,118 --> 00:19:25,164
"Some women I had sex with
and I did not kill."

362
00:19:26,165 --> 00:19:27,687
Knowing
the Rex you know

363
00:19:27,688 --> 00:19:28,906
since you were 18 years old,

364
00:19:30,517 --> 00:19:32,910
<i>do you feel he
expressed any remorse?</i>

365
00:19:35,826 --> 00:19:36,697
No.

366
00:19:37,306 --> 00:19:38,524
No.

367
00:19:38,525 --> 00:19:39,786
Okay.

368
00:19:39,787 --> 00:19:41,092
How did you feel
about his tears?

369
00:19:43,530 --> 00:19:45,314
I think the tears were for me.

370
00:19:47,055 --> 00:19:47,837
Not for the victims.

371
00:19:47,838 --> 00:19:48,752
No.

372
00:19:50,276 --> 00:19:51,625
<i>Do you believe</i>

373
00:19:53,409 --> 00:19:55,367
<i>Rex got into a
relationship with you,</i>

374
00:19:55,368 --> 00:19:56,891
<i>married you,</i>

375
00:19:58,284 --> 00:20:01,025
<i>because he was able to
control and manipulate you?</i>

376
00:20:01,548 --> 00:20:02,549
<i>No.</i>

377
00:20:02,897 --> 00:20:04,332
No.

378
00:20:04,333 --> 00:20:06,422
What did he say
about his first wife?

379
00:20:07,031 --> 00:20:07,988
Remember?

380
00:20:07,989 --> 00:20:08,902
He said she was crazy

381
00:20:08,903 --> 00:20:10,165
and he couldn't...

382
00:20:10,905 --> 00:20:12,079
Go ahead.

383
00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:13,472
Right, and he
couldn't control her.

384
00:20:13,473 --> 00:20:14,342
He couldn't control her.

385
00:20:14,343 --> 00:20:15,561
So think about that.

386
00:20:15,562 --> 00:20:17,040
Just sit with that
for a minute, right?

387
00:20:17,041 --> 00:20:18,825
"My first wife, she was crazy.

388
00:20:18,826 --> 00:20:20,043
I couldn't put up with her,

389
00:20:20,044 --> 00:20:21,306
I couldn't control her."

390
00:20:21,307 --> 00:20:22,959
What did you say?
Do you remember?

391
00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:24,223
I said...

392
00:20:25,354 --> 00:20:26,876
"Why did you choose me?"

393
00:20:26,877 --> 00:20:27,747
Yeah.

394
00:20:27,748 --> 00:20:30,751
He said he loved me.

395
00:20:31,534 --> 00:20:32,492
Do you believe
he loved you?

396
00:20:34,407 --> 00:20:35,886
Yes, I do.

397
00:20:37,236 --> 00:20:38,888
Do you think that
he has any remorse

398
00:20:38,889 --> 00:20:41,239
for destroying

399
00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:43,024
your family's life?

400
00:20:49,378 --> 00:20:51,206
Yes, I saw the tears.

401
00:20:55,384 --> 00:20:57,690
<i>He lived a double life.</i>

402
00:20:57,691 --> 00:21:00,997
<i>I saw the man that worked hard,</i>

403
00:21:00,998 --> 00:21:03,217
<i>took care of his family.</i>

404
00:21:03,218 --> 00:21:04,611
<i>But...</i>

405
00:21:05,742 --> 00:21:09,529
anyone who takes a life,

406
00:21:12,619 --> 00:21:14,794
I don't think that
they deserve to die,

407
00:21:14,795 --> 00:21:18,624
I think that they
deserve to be forced

408
00:21:18,625 --> 00:21:22,063
to face the reality
of what they've done.

409
00:21:24,283 --> 00:21:27,981
<i>All of these girls that
were found on Gilgo Beach,</i>

410
00:21:27,982 --> 00:21:30,637
<i>they were somebody's daughter.</i>

411
00:21:32,203 --> 00:21:34,509
<i>They were somebody's sister.</i>

412
00:21:34,510 --> 00:21:36,469
<i>They were girls.</i>

413
00:21:48,437 --> 00:21:49,351
<i>Yes.</i>

414
00:22:03,234 --> 00:22:07,717
Yes, I believe he's
the Gilgo Beach Killer.

415
00:22:31,175 --> 00:22:33,307
<i>The peace and beauty of Fire
Island was shattered today</i>

416
00:22:33,308 --> 00:22:35,744
by the grizzly discovery
of two human legs

417
00:22:35,745 --> 00:22:37,311
minus a body.

418
00:22:37,312 --> 00:22:39,922
Police have no clues as
to who the legs discovered

419
00:22:39,923 --> 00:22:41,446
<i>at Davis Park belonged to.</i>

420
00:22:41,447 --> 00:22:42,925
<i>Investigators say the legs</i>

421
00:22:42,926 --> 00:22:45,493
<i>with red painted toenails
are definitely female,</i>

422
00:22:45,494 --> 00:22:48,497
<i>but that's all they know so far.</i>

423
00:22:51,544 --> 00:22:53,153
<i>Today, authorities
identified one</i> of the victims

424
00:22:53,154 --> 00:22:55,285
<i>in the Gilgo Beach murders.</i>

425
00:22:55,286 --> 00:22:58,158
Her remains found
nearly three decades ago

426
00:22:58,159 --> 00:22:59,812
off of Fire Island.

427
00:22:59,813 --> 00:23:02,728
We were able to identify
Fire Island Jane Doe

428
00:23:02,729 --> 00:23:04,730
as Karen Vergata,

429
00:23:04,731 --> 00:23:06,558
who was 34 years old

430
00:23:06,559 --> 00:23:08,603
at the time of
her disappearance.

431
00:23:08,604 --> 00:23:11,301
<i>Vergata disappeared
in February, 1996.</i>

432
00:23:11,302 --> 00:23:13,652
<i>She was 34, living
in New York City,</i>

433
00:23:13,653 --> 00:23:16,089
<i>and authorities said like
other Gilgo Beach victims,</i>

434
00:23:16,090 --> 00:23:17,525
<i>a sex worker.</i>

435
00:23:17,526 --> 00:23:21,311
<i>Her legs were found
in Davis Park.</i>

436
00:23:21,312 --> 00:23:25,315
<i>Her skull is found at Gilgo,</i>

437
00:23:25,316 --> 00:23:28,231
where Rex Heuermann's other
alleged victims

438
00:23:28,232 --> 00:23:30,409
were disposed of like trash.

439
00:23:31,105 --> 00:23:33,280
<i>Karen Vergata's
stepsister has said,</i>

440
00:23:33,281 --> 00:23:35,282
<i>"I'm glad she's found.</i>

441
00:23:35,283 --> 00:23:37,197
<i>It's nice to have closure.</i>

442
00:23:37,198 --> 00:23:39,591
<i>We always wondered
what happened."</i>

443
00:23:39,592 --> 00:23:42,724
<i>She also explained
Vergata's father once hired</i>

444
00:23:42,725 --> 00:23:45,423
<i>a private investigator
to try and find her,</i>

445
00:23:45,424 --> 00:23:48,209
<i>but died never knowing
the fate of his daughter.</i>

446
00:23:48,644 --> 00:23:50,166
<i>Still unknown how</i>

447
00:23:50,167 --> 00:23:52,691
<i>or why Vergata was killed,
and more importantly,</i>

448
00:23:52,692 --> 00:23:55,215
<i>whether accused serial killer,
Rex Heuermann,</i>

449
00:23:55,216 --> 00:23:57,086
<i>was involved in her death.</i>

450
00:23:57,087 --> 00:23:59,262
<i>It's important to note
that there are no charges</i>

451
00:23:59,263 --> 00:24:00,742
<i>at this time.</i>

452
00:24:00,743 --> 00:24:03,876
We are gonna continue to
work this particular case

453
00:24:03,877 --> 00:24:06,314
as we did the Gilgo Four
investigation.

454
00:24:18,935 --> 00:24:19,762
Sure.

455
00:25:06,983 --> 00:25:09,289
<i>Am I allowed to
talk about this?</i>

456
00:25:09,290 --> 00:25:11,205
I don't know if he'll ever
be indicted for the eighth.

457
00:25:13,337 --> 00:25:14,642
I don't, it's not public,
the eighth,

458
00:25:14,643 --> 00:25:16,123
'cause they don't have evidence.

459
00:25:21,258 --> 00:25:22,521
<i>Okay.</i>

460
00:25:23,391 --> 00:25:27,655
I would say that the
killing of Karen Vergata

461
00:25:27,656 --> 00:25:30,353
before he was getting
married was a pivot point

462
00:25:30,354 --> 00:25:33,053
to make him more comfortable
in future killings.

463
00:25:34,576 --> 00:25:37,360
<i>I don't think he cared</i>

464
00:25:37,361 --> 00:25:39,058
<i>that he was about
to go get married</i>

465
00:25:39,059 --> 00:25:40,886
<i>to his pregnant wife.</i>

466
00:25:40,887 --> 00:25:43,279
<i>He divides the worlds.</i>

467
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:46,108
He said they're two
separate entities.

468
00:25:46,109 --> 00:25:48,197
<i>He doesn't regulate
emotions like you and I.</i>

469
00:25:48,198 --> 00:25:50,199
<i>So when he was doing
what he was doing,</i>

470
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:51,374
<i>was he thinking of his family?</i>

471
00:25:51,375 --> 00:25:52,811
<i>No.</i>

472
00:25:52,812 --> 00:25:54,552
<i>Was that a stressor?</i>

473
00:25:54,553 --> 00:25:56,685
<i>Subconsciously, absolutely.</i>

474
00:25:57,077 --> 00:25:59,078
Did he recognize
it at the time? No.

475
00:25:59,079 --> 00:26:00,514
In his mind, it was time

476
00:26:00,515 --> 00:26:02,821
that Asa will be away
planning their wedding.

477
00:26:02,822 --> 00:26:04,257
So he was free to
do what he wanted

478
00:26:04,258 --> 00:26:05,868
<i>and fulfill his own fantasy.</i>

479
00:26:07,435 --> 00:26:09,567
<i>I think that was pivotal to
making it easier and easier</i>

480
00:26:09,568 --> 00:26:11,177
<i>to move forward.</i>

481
00:26:11,178 --> 00:26:14,964
And it became more of
a game inside his mind.

482
00:26:15,617 --> 00:26:17,792
<i>Prepping, timing,</i>

483
00:26:17,793 --> 00:26:20,316
<i>playtime, cleanup.</i>

484
00:26:20,317 --> 00:26:24,538
It all became a methodical

485
00:26:24,539 --> 00:26:26,279
second life,

486
00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:27,498
<i>so to speak.</i>

487
00:26:43,689 --> 00:26:45,777
No, no.

488
00:26:45,778 --> 00:26:47,388
That's not the way
I understand it.

489
00:26:48,607 --> 00:26:49,607
No, no, it...

490
00:26:49,608 --> 00:26:50,738
No, no.

491
00:26:50,739 --> 00:26:52,827
He said, I asked him,
I asked him.

492
00:26:54,308 --> 00:26:55,483
Hold on.

493
00:27:02,925 --> 00:27:03,926
Hello.

494
00:27:06,625 --> 00:27:08,191
I'm doing much better.

495
00:27:11,325 --> 00:27:12,500
So the...

496
00:27:14,241 --> 00:27:16,417
So, what...

497
00:27:19,507 --> 00:27:22,378
Yes, yes,
we're on speaker.

498
00:27:22,379 --> 00:27:24,904
So I have one question for you.

499
00:27:27,994 --> 00:27:32,563
I'd like to know when was
the first planned event.

500
00:27:36,959 --> 00:27:41,311
I had gone in hand with a
wedding dress to Sweden.

501
00:27:44,401 --> 00:27:48,143
You were meeting me on the
last week of the vacation.

502
00:27:48,144 --> 00:27:50,581
I took a three-week
vacation that year.

503
00:27:53,106 --> 00:27:55,325
<i>She flew down
how long before you?</i>

504
00:27:58,415 --> 00:27:59,503
<i>Two.</i>

505
00:28:01,767 --> 00:28:03,420
And what year was that?

506
00:28:05,553 --> 00:28:06,772
Right.

507
00:28:08,382 --> 00:28:09,600
Rex?

508
00:28:11,254 --> 00:28:12,559
Just so you understand,

509
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:15,127
what we're trying to
do is help Asa process

510
00:28:15,128 --> 00:28:18,958
through the two separate lives.

511
00:28:19,698 --> 00:28:21,612
Sometimes there are
stressors in your life

512
00:28:22,613 --> 00:28:25,224
that trigger things

513
00:28:25,225 --> 00:28:26,705
<i>to do things.</i>

514
00:28:29,272 --> 00:28:31,927
<i>So we're doing a little
live therapy session here.</i>

515
00:28:37,585 --> 00:28:39,717
Was that stressful knowing

516
00:28:39,718 --> 00:28:41,545
that you're having
a baby coming?

517
00:28:53,035 --> 00:28:55,645
Can you share with her
to help her understand

518
00:28:55,646 --> 00:28:56,908
just emotionally maybe like

519
00:28:56,909 --> 00:28:58,518
what you were feeling,

520
00:28:58,519 --> 00:29:01,391
what you were going through
when you were home...

521
00:29:03,567 --> 00:29:04,873
Alone.

522
00:29:05,961 --> 00:29:07,876
Before you flew out
to marry her?

523
00:29:22,021 --> 00:29:23,196
<i>You have one minute left.</i>

524
00:29:27,330 --> 00:29:30,680
So anyway, um,

525
00:29:30,681 --> 00:29:31,986
I didn't wanna scare you off

526
00:29:31,987 --> 00:29:34,990
'cause I get a a little
confused sometimes.

527
00:29:43,782 --> 00:29:45,261
I know.

528
00:29:46,872 --> 00:29:49,178
I know that.

529
00:29:52,225 --> 00:29:54,922
<i>In her heart, do I think
she'll ever let him go?</i>

530
00:29:54,923 --> 00:29:57,055
No, because she didn't
know him that way.

531
00:29:57,056 --> 00:29:58,666
She never saw that side of him.

532
00:30:00,363 --> 00:30:03,365
<i>She only saw the man who
she believed was saving her</i>

533
00:30:03,366 --> 00:30:04,933
<i>from a life of trauma.</i>

534
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:14,463
<i>When Asa was born,</i>

535
00:30:14,464 --> 00:30:16,727
<i>we have to realize
nobody wanted her.</i>

536
00:30:17,641 --> 00:30:20,078
They adopted her into
an American family.

537
00:30:20,079 --> 00:30:22,428
<i>She never felt wanted or loved.</i>

538
00:30:22,429 --> 00:30:24,691
<i>She always felt less than.</i>

539
00:30:24,692 --> 00:30:26,562
<i>She always felt different.</i>

540
00:30:26,563 --> 00:30:28,129
Asa comes from years of abuse,

541
00:30:28,130 --> 00:30:30,044
years of neglect.

542
00:30:30,045 --> 00:30:32,831
<i>She went from one trauma
to the next to the next.</i>

543
00:30:35,877 --> 00:30:37,748
<i>When I think back
to my childhood,</i>

544
00:30:38,837 --> 00:30:41,578
<i>my father was always working.</i>

545
00:30:41,970 --> 00:30:44,363
<i>He would end up
traveling, you know,</i>

546
00:30:44,364 --> 00:30:46,670
<i>for like two, three
months at a time.</i>

547
00:30:47,802 --> 00:30:51,587
A lot of my friends
had older brothers,

548
00:30:51,588 --> 00:30:53,415
<i>and the older brothers
were always keeping an eye</i>

549
00:30:53,416 --> 00:30:55,330
<i>on their little sisters.</i>

550
00:30:55,331 --> 00:30:57,638
<i>But no one was
watching out for me.</i>

551
00:30:58,857 --> 00:31:00,683
<i>I'm 16 years old.</i>

552
00:31:00,684 --> 00:31:03,078
<i>I was out one day.</i>

553
00:31:03,818 --> 00:31:07,560
<i>There was a bunch of boys on
a street corner hanging out,</i>

554
00:31:07,561 --> 00:31:10,869
and one of them pulled
me behind my house

555
00:31:12,218 --> 00:31:13,610
and molested me.

556
00:31:16,135 --> 00:31:18,311
I couldn't get away.

557
00:31:21,401 --> 00:31:24,665
I quit school not
too long after that.

558
00:31:27,755 --> 00:31:30,323
I also tried to commit suicide.

559
00:31:31,977 --> 00:31:33,413
Not something I'm proud of.

560
00:31:37,896 --> 00:31:40,288
<i>So if there's anybody
that knows anything</i>

561
00:31:40,289 --> 00:31:43,074
about what bad men
are capable of doing,

562
00:31:43,075 --> 00:31:44,641
that would be me.

563
00:31:47,427 --> 00:31:50,168
When I first met Asa,
she was broken...

564
00:31:50,169 --> 00:31:52,258
<i>It's crying from guilt.</i>

565
00:31:54,390 --> 00:31:57,740
Guilt that

566
00:31:57,741 --> 00:31:59,829
I wasn't a good enough wife.

567
00:31:59,830 --> 00:32:01,614
In total shock...

568
00:32:01,615 --> 00:32:05,706
What would anyone do
if they're in my shoes?

569
00:32:06,794 --> 00:32:07,925
Denial.

570
00:32:07,926 --> 00:32:09,535
And I go to bed at night

571
00:32:09,536 --> 00:32:11,711
and I wake up the next
morning saying to myself,

572
00:32:11,712 --> 00:32:14,192
"Girl, it didn't happen.

573
00:32:14,193 --> 00:32:17,848
Your husband, Rex Heuermann,
did not do this."

574
00:32:19,241 --> 00:32:21,851
<i>I've noticed her
cognitive dissonance.</i>

575
00:32:21,852 --> 00:32:26,465
Asa was placing reality onto
what she needed to believe.

576
00:32:26,466 --> 00:32:29,382
<i>He's a family man, period.</i>

577
00:32:30,122 --> 00:32:32,514
I'm convinced that the
person they're looking for

578
00:32:32,515 --> 00:32:34,953
is not a family man.

579
00:32:37,999 --> 00:32:41,567
Rex was the kind of person
that you could call,

580
00:32:41,568 --> 00:32:44,874
even if you just
wanted to talk,

581
00:32:44,875 --> 00:32:46,051
and that's it.

582
00:32:46,790 --> 00:32:50,010
<i>He was the one person
I could count on</i>

583
00:32:50,011 --> 00:32:51,881
when I needed something

584
00:32:51,882 --> 00:32:53,362
and he was there.

585
00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:00,760
<i>Charming Rex comes in.</i>

586
00:33:00,761 --> 00:33:03,241
<i>He says, "Move into my home."</i>

587
00:33:03,242 --> 00:33:06,332
<i>She went with what was safe
because she needed to survive.</i>

588
00:33:10,814 --> 00:33:12,338
<i>She never challenged him.</i>

589
00:33:13,165 --> 00:33:14,730
He would say something and
she would just take it in

590
00:33:14,731 --> 00:33:15,862
and believe it.

591
00:33:15,863 --> 00:33:17,865
And when I would ask her why,

592
00:33:18,909 --> 00:33:20,998
"Because he's my husband,"

593
00:33:20,999 --> 00:33:22,652
and that's an honest
answer of hers.

594
00:33:24,785 --> 00:33:27,743
<i>I do believe there's
a part of Asa</i>

595
00:33:27,744 --> 00:33:30,921
<i>that will never accept that
he murdered these women.</i>

596
00:33:32,358 --> 00:33:36,056
<i>She would rather create
something that works for her</i>

597
00:33:36,057 --> 00:33:39,407
in her mind than something
that's more real,

598
00:33:39,408 --> 00:33:41,106
<i>and that's a process in itself.</i>

599
00:33:42,150 --> 00:33:44,804
<i>Believing that she can have
any healthy relationship</i>

600
00:33:44,805 --> 00:33:48,329
<i>with Rex in the future
is delusional thinking.</i>

601
00:33:48,330 --> 00:33:49,810
<i>We need to work on that.</i>

602
00:33:51,072 --> 00:33:54,031
<i>She clearly grieves
differently than Victoria.</i>

603
00:33:54,032 --> 00:33:56,556
<i>So now Victoria has
to hear the truth.</i>

604
00:33:57,774 --> 00:33:59,819
She wants closure.

605
00:33:59,820 --> 00:34:01,516
Whatever that looks like,

606
00:34:01,517 --> 00:34:03,693
she's ready for this to be done.

607
00:34:17,055 --> 00:34:19,186
<i>Ever since my
dad was arrested,</i>

608
00:34:19,187 --> 00:34:22,885
<i>it has become a combination
of humiliation,</i>

609
00:34:22,886 --> 00:34:26,063
<i>confusion, sadness,</i>

610
00:34:26,064 --> 00:34:28,369
and uncertainty,

611
00:34:28,370 --> 00:34:31,329
all in a whole bowl of like
fruit salad or something.

612
00:34:31,330 --> 00:34:32,722
Just all those things.

613
00:34:34,159 --> 00:34:36,203
<i>Nobody really thinks
about the daughter</i>

614
00:34:36,204 --> 00:34:38,076
of the serial killer.

615
00:34:39,033 --> 00:34:42,775
There is actually artwork
produced by Victoria.

616
00:34:42,776 --> 00:34:45,604
<i>People are just making up
stories about it.</i>

617
00:34:45,605 --> 00:34:48,520
This horrifying monster
with blood eating

618
00:34:48,521 --> 00:34:50,739
on the breasts of this woman.

619
00:34:50,740 --> 00:34:52,089
They were writing my story

620
00:34:52,090 --> 00:34:54,221
right in front of us
on the news.

621
00:34:54,222 --> 00:34:57,355
<i>Your hair, your DNA, whatever
it is, is on the bodies.</i>

622
00:34:57,356 --> 00:34:59,052
Why aren't you involved?

623
00:34:59,053 --> 00:35:01,098
<i>All I knew was</i>

624
00:35:01,099 --> 00:35:02,926
<i>everything I knew was gone.</i>

625
00:35:05,973 --> 00:35:08,062
<i>We're not gonna turn this
into some kind of sideshow.</i>

626
00:35:11,109 --> 00:35:12,848
<i>Victoria has told me that she</i>

627
00:35:12,849 --> 00:35:15,417
<i>and her father have a
very strong relationship.</i>

628
00:35:16,375 --> 00:35:18,506
<i>Her protective fantasies
about the father</i>

629
00:35:18,507 --> 00:35:20,291
<i>that she knows</i>

630
00:35:20,292 --> 00:35:21,728
<i>are very real to her.</i>

631
00:35:23,599 --> 00:35:26,601
<i>My initial observations
of Victoria,</i>

632
00:35:26,602 --> 00:35:28,517
she was in total shock.

633
00:35:31,216 --> 00:35:34,479
<i>Completely blindsided</i>

634
00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:35,524
and hurt.

635
00:35:36,090 --> 00:35:37,830
I feel like I
definitely do jump

636
00:35:37,831 --> 00:35:40,746
between depression
and anger a lot.

637
00:35:40,747 --> 00:35:43,966
<i>My self-esteem and
self-worth is just tanked.</i>

638
00:35:43,967 --> 00:35:45,839
Like, why am I even
here anymore?

639
00:35:47,580 --> 00:35:49,973
She's definitely
traumatized by it.

640
00:35:51,061 --> 00:35:54,717
<i>It took me months to feel
anything about this case.</i>

641
00:35:55,762 --> 00:35:58,112
Like this stuff does not, you
know, hit just a like that.

642
00:35:59,853 --> 00:36:02,594
It takes a while
to actually set it.

643
00:36:02,595 --> 00:36:05,424
So you know, like right now
I just don't know how I feel.

644
00:36:08,514 --> 00:36:11,994
Her brain processes
it on her terms

645
00:36:11,995 --> 00:36:13,736
<i>and she needed to do it her way.</i>

646
00:36:21,179 --> 00:36:23,963
<i>About 26 months
after the arrest,</i>

647
00:36:23,964 --> 00:36:26,967
I got a call from Alison saying
that he wanted to meet me.

648
00:36:30,013 --> 00:36:32,145
<i>He wanted to sit face
to face and you know,</i>

649
00:36:32,146 --> 00:36:34,017
<i>admit his crimes...</i>

650
00:36:36,629 --> 00:36:41,328
<i>and give us time
before he confessed</i>

651
00:36:41,329 --> 00:36:42,635
<i>to the world.</i>

652
00:36:53,385 --> 00:36:55,256
<i>Walking into that room, um...</i>

653
00:36:58,346 --> 00:36:59,868
I saw my dad, the man,

654
00:36:59,869 --> 00:37:01,654
not necessarily the monster.

655
00:37:03,917 --> 00:37:07,529
They set up his handcuffs
to the chair and everything.

656
00:37:30,465 --> 00:37:32,553
Something that was
really important to me

657
00:37:32,554 --> 00:37:34,773
and really just how I'm
gonna get past this was,

658
00:37:34,774 --> 00:37:37,123
were any of them,
how many were there?

659
00:37:37,124 --> 00:37:38,386
<i>He said, "Eight."</i>

660
00:37:40,562 --> 00:37:42,956
He did tell me the first
murder wasn't planned.

661
00:37:44,697 --> 00:37:48,743
In 1993, he killed
Sandra Castillo

662
00:37:48,744 --> 00:37:50,442
in his car at the time.

663
00:37:53,532 --> 00:37:56,142
I remember as a kid he had

664
00:37:56,143 --> 00:37:57,535
a, um,

665
00:37:57,536 --> 00:37:59,059
a Dodge Ramcharger.

666
00:38:02,149 --> 00:38:03,454
I did as a kid.

667
00:38:03,455 --> 00:38:06,458
We did ride in the Ramcharger.

668
00:38:08,982 --> 00:38:11,462
So besides Sandra Costilla,

669
00:38:11,463 --> 00:38:13,246
he did say that
they were all in,

670
00:38:13,247 --> 00:38:14,509
the rest were in the house.

671
00:38:15,728 --> 00:38:17,730
You know, in the kill room.

672
00:38:18,905 --> 00:38:22,864
And he said, Karen,
Valerie and Jessica

673
00:38:22,865 --> 00:38:24,345
were...

674
00:38:26,739 --> 00:38:30,395
murdered and mutilated, and
dismembered in that room.

675
00:38:34,312 --> 00:38:36,051
<i>And my dad has confirmed</i>

676
00:38:36,052 --> 00:38:38,577
that one of them was
killed in their bed.

677
00:38:44,147 --> 00:38:46,801
I also asked him about
his planning document

678
00:38:46,802 --> 00:38:49,238
that was created in 2000

679
00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:51,328
<i>before Valerie Mack's murder.</i>

680
00:38:51,329 --> 00:38:53,155
<i>My dad told me</i>

681
00:38:53,156 --> 00:38:56,333
he first created that document

682
00:38:56,334 --> 00:38:59,162
as a way to try to
distract himself

683
00:39:00,250 --> 00:39:02,818
<i>from having to actually
do the act itself.</i>

684
00:39:03,341 --> 00:39:05,820
<i>If he, you know,
puts it on paper</i>

685
00:39:05,821 --> 00:39:06,952
and acts it out in his head,

686
00:39:06,953 --> 00:39:09,911
that that would curb the zone,

687
00:39:09,912 --> 00:39:11,479
<i>you know, curb the urge.</i>

688
00:39:23,535 --> 00:39:26,493
<i>He said he took two pictures,</i>

689
00:39:26,494 --> 00:39:28,452
<i>only two out of
all eight murders.</i>

690
00:39:28,453 --> 00:39:30,368
He only took two pictures.

691
00:39:31,891 --> 00:39:33,719
But nobody's seen
these pictures.

692
00:39:34,850 --> 00:39:36,983
He destroyed them
promptly afterwards.

693
00:39:38,332 --> 00:39:40,116
They were long destroyed.

694
00:39:44,947 --> 00:39:47,775
<i>He said that his
demons got to him.</i>

695
00:39:47,776 --> 00:39:49,603
<i>When he was in a
certain opportunity</i>

696
00:39:49,604 --> 00:39:51,779
<i>or there was a certain
catalyst in front of him</i>

697
00:39:51,780 --> 00:39:55,218
that would start to
create these dark urges.

698
00:39:55,915 --> 00:39:57,264
<i>It was a sickness.</i>

699
00:39:58,700 --> 00:40:01,223
<i>I asked him like,
"Well, did you see them</i>

700
00:40:01,224 --> 00:40:02,617
<i>as somebody's daughter?"</i>

701
00:40:03,836 --> 00:40:05,968
He told me, "Didn't even
see them as human."

702
00:40:19,329 --> 00:40:20,765
<i>Yes.</i>

703
00:40:20,766 --> 00:40:23,333
<i>He said he doesn't
think about the family.</i>

704
00:40:24,422 --> 00:40:28,425
He never thought about me
when he was doing it.

705
00:40:28,426 --> 00:40:30,165
<i>They were completely
kept separate,</i>

706
00:40:30,166 --> 00:40:32,430
<i>he never let the two cross.</i>

707
00:40:34,344 --> 00:40:36,128
<i>So I'm like, "Okay.
He's a loving dad</i>

708
00:40:36,129 --> 00:40:38,173
<i>and the serial killer.</i>

709
00:40:38,174 --> 00:40:42,352
<i>How do you manage that
the two never crossed?"</i>

710
00:40:44,529 --> 00:40:46,444
Seven women have been
murdered in this house.

711
00:40:49,534 --> 00:40:51,100
<i>It's hard to stomach.</i>

712
00:41:15,864 --> 00:41:19,258
<i>I had like a whole
almost two years</i>

713
00:41:19,259 --> 00:41:21,043
<i>to just mentally
prepared me for this.</i>

714
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:25,917
The uncertainty of not
knowing was a lot harder

715
00:41:25,918 --> 00:41:27,789
than eventually finding out.

716
00:41:32,315 --> 00:41:33,838
With everything
that has happened,

717
00:41:33,839 --> 00:41:35,362
how am I supposed to just
go back to normal? You know?

718
00:41:37,451 --> 00:41:41,628
So, I do accept his guilt

719
00:41:41,629 --> 00:41:44,501
and the crimes that he has,

720
00:41:44,502 --> 00:41:46,286
the crimes that he has done.

721
00:41:50,551 --> 00:41:51,986
What are you doing?

722
00:41:51,987 --> 00:41:53,814
I am...

723
00:41:53,815 --> 00:41:55,774
lighting some sage down here.

724
00:41:58,777 --> 00:42:00,343
What does the sage do?

725
00:42:01,170 --> 00:42:03,694
Just to cleanse the area

726
00:42:03,695 --> 00:42:06,523
after, after hearing that
some of the victims

727
00:42:06,524 --> 00:42:09,656
were killed down here.

728
00:42:09,657 --> 00:42:12,617
Especially in, in this room,

729
00:42:14,140 --> 00:42:15,489
Um.

730
00:42:18,361 --> 00:42:19,753
- I kind of...
- In here?

731
00:42:19,754 --> 00:42:20,798
- Yeah.
- Yeah.

732
00:42:20,799 --> 00:42:23,541
I just wanna clear out the

733
00:42:25,717 --> 00:42:29,154
energy of it all
and send, you know,

734
00:42:29,155 --> 00:42:32,244
and hopefully any
linger, you know,

735
00:42:32,245 --> 00:42:35,334
any of their spirits are pure

736
00:42:35,335 --> 00:42:38,033
that they can, you
know, finally rest.

737
00:42:39,861 --> 00:42:42,515
She was just very
kindhearted, you know?

738
00:42:42,516 --> 00:42:43,864
<i>She made mistakes. Who doesn't?</i>

739
00:42:43,865 --> 00:42:44,909
<i>She didn't deserve this.</i>

740
00:42:44,910 --> 00:42:46,345
<i>Nobody deserves this.</i>

741
00:42:46,346 --> 00:42:48,129
<i>She's just a beautiful,
beautiful,</i>

742
00:42:48,130 --> 00:42:50,131
<i>loving human being.</i>

743
00:42:50,132 --> 00:42:51,960
<i>And I miss her terribly.</i>

744
00:42:53,832 --> 00:42:55,441
It kind of makes sense now

745
00:42:55,442 --> 00:42:58,444
after hearing that some
of them were killed here.

746
00:42:58,445 --> 00:43:00,360
There were just some
moments where just

747
00:43:01,448 --> 00:43:03,667
the energy kind,
there was just really...

748
00:43:03,668 --> 00:43:05,756
- You were feeling it?
- Yeah.

749
00:43:05,757 --> 00:43:07,540
<i>It brings me happiness to know</i>

750
00:43:07,541 --> 00:43:11,283
<i>that he will not be having
access to any other girls.</i>

751
00:43:11,284 --> 00:43:13,677
<i>It brings me peace to
know that my sister</i>

752
00:43:13,678 --> 00:43:16,636
<i>is laying where she
should be with my family.</i>

753
00:43:16,637 --> 00:43:19,858
<i>And that if my parents here
and my sister was here,</i>

754
00:43:22,208 --> 00:43:23,731
she would say, "Thank you."

755
00:43:24,950 --> 00:43:28,692
The lingering anger,
the lingering emotions,

756
00:43:28,693 --> 00:43:31,043
everything and just
kind of just here.

757
00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:36,308
<i>I remember as a kid
I would watch TV,</i>

758
00:43:36,309 --> 00:43:38,702
<i>play video games in that area</i>

759
00:43:38,703 --> 00:43:42,140
and that is about maybe 10 feet

760
00:43:42,141 --> 00:43:45,840
from where those women
were mutilated or murdered.

761
00:43:47,146 --> 00:43:49,626
<i>That image was in my
head of just, you know,</i>

762
00:43:49,627 --> 00:43:53,020
"Hey, I was watching
TV right where he did,

763
00:43:53,021 --> 00:43:54,632
you know, he did
all these things."

764
00:43:58,984 --> 00:44:00,289
It's him.

765
00:44:01,464 --> 00:44:02,248
You wanna get Asa?

766
00:44:07,035 --> 00:44:08,645
Individual at Suffolk County

767
00:44:08,646 --> 00:44:10,298
Correctional Facility.

768
00:44:10,299 --> 00:44:12,737
This call is subject to
recording and monitoring.

769
00:44:15,827 --> 00:44:17,002
Hey there.

770
00:44:19,265 --> 00:44:21,309
I'm good, I'm good.

771
00:44:21,310 --> 00:44:22,921
I'm standing here
with your daughter.

772
00:44:28,927 --> 00:44:30,405
She's hanging in there.

773
00:44:30,406 --> 00:44:33,931
We were just talking about
what it was like for her

774
00:44:33,932 --> 00:44:36,107
and for you

775
00:44:36,108 --> 00:44:37,544
after the meeting.

776
00:44:52,298 --> 00:44:53,386
Sure.

777
00:44:55,170 --> 00:44:57,042
Is Asa coming down?

778
00:44:58,826 --> 00:45:00,392
Are you allowed to call back?

779
00:45:00,393 --> 00:45:02,134
Because I know you're
gonna run out of time.

780
00:45:04,702 --> 00:45:05,703
Thank you.

781
00:45:15,364 --> 00:45:16,322
Hold on.

782
00:45:17,671 --> 00:45:18,890
Camera speeds.

783
00:45:20,369 --> 00:45:21,674
- Ready guys?
- Yep.

784
00:45:26,419 --> 00:45:27,637
<i>Rex Heuermann.</i>

785
00:45:28,726 --> 00:45:30,814
<i>An incarcerated individual at...</i>

786
00:45:30,815 --> 00:45:32,904
<i>This call is subject to
recording and monitoring.</i>

787
00:45:34,993 --> 00:45:36,734
- Hey there.
- Hi.

788
00:45:38,605 --> 00:45:40,345
- Hello.
- Hello.

789
00:45:40,346 --> 00:45:42,130
We even have Christopher
next to us.

790
00:45:44,611 --> 00:45:45,655
I'm doing all right.

791
00:45:50,443 --> 00:45:52,358
So, we're all sitting
here together in the den.

792
00:45:58,233 --> 00:45:59,887
I'm doing okay.

793
00:46:02,977 --> 00:46:04,849
Did he provide clarity?

794
00:46:05,675 --> 00:46:07,329
You need to hear it from him?

795
00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:09,635
Yes and no.

796
00:46:09,636 --> 00:46:11,811
I mean, the clarity
comes from much more

797
00:46:11,812 --> 00:46:14,945
than just him saying
something, you know.

798
00:46:14,946 --> 00:46:19,253
But him saying it now,
it helps my mind

799
00:46:19,254 --> 00:46:21,952
because now that I know,

800
00:46:21,953 --> 00:46:24,564
then it's easier for
me to move forward.

801
00:46:30,439 --> 00:46:31,788
You wanna say something?
Go ahead.

802
00:46:31,789 --> 00:46:33,833
Hold on. Christopher's
next to me.

803
00:46:33,834 --> 00:46:35,227
He wants to talk.

804
00:46:36,315 --> 00:46:38,578
I don't know what
else to say, but...

805
00:46:41,494 --> 00:46:42,364
What?

806
00:46:52,810 --> 00:46:54,115
Right.

807
00:46:56,770 --> 00:46:57,815
Great idea.

808
00:47:09,174 --> 00:47:10,262
Right.

809
00:47:12,394 --> 00:47:13,830
Why was it important
for you, Rex,

810
00:47:13,831 --> 00:47:15,484
to sit down with them

811
00:47:17,573 --> 00:47:19,053
and answer their questions?

812
00:47:42,860 --> 00:47:43,860
Is that what you guys felt?

813
00:47:43,861 --> 00:47:45,253
Do you feel that?

814
00:47:46,385 --> 00:47:48,081
That he was receptive
to your questions?

815
00:47:48,082 --> 00:47:49,344
- Yeah.
- Yes.

816
00:47:50,606 --> 00:47:52,173
Good.

817
00:47:52,739 --> 00:47:55,133
Were you surprised by any of
the questions that they asked?

818
00:48:15,544 --> 00:48:17,545
I figured it'd take
my opportunity to ask,

819
00:48:17,546 --> 00:48:19,113
you know, when I had it.

820
00:48:20,462 --> 00:48:23,074
He said, I wasn't born
yet when Sandra Castillo

821
00:48:23,988 --> 00:48:25,641
<i>and Karen Vergata were murdered.</i>

822
00:48:26,207 --> 00:48:28,253
I was three when
Valerie Mack was murdered.

823
00:48:30,733 --> 00:48:32,866
<i>I was six when Jessica
Taylor was murdered.</i>

824
00:48:34,259 --> 00:48:37,131
<i>I was 10 when Maureen
Brainard-Barnes was murdered.</i>

825
00:48:38,480 --> 00:48:40,961
<i>I was 12 when Melissa
Barthelemy was murdered</i>

826
00:48:42,354 --> 00:48:46,966
and I was 13 when Megan Waterman

827
00:48:46,967 --> 00:48:48,926
<i>and Amber Costello
were murdered.</i>

828
00:48:59,240 --> 00:49:02,939
Rex told me that toward
the last two killings,

829
00:49:02,940 --> 00:49:05,463
he knew he wasn't getting
the same gratification.

830
00:49:05,464 --> 00:49:08,945
He wasn't receiving
the adrenaline rush.

831
00:49:08,946 --> 00:49:10,381
And by his last kill,

832
00:49:10,382 --> 00:49:11,818
he knew he was gonna stop.

833
00:49:12,471 --> 00:49:13,732
And I looked at him and I said,

834
00:49:13,733 --> 00:49:15,429
"Well, I beg to differ
a little bit,

835
00:49:15,430 --> 00:49:16,996
look at the timing."

836
00:49:16,997 --> 00:49:19,433
Shannon Gilbert
had gone missing,

837
00:49:19,434 --> 00:49:22,393
and that family, they
kept that case alive

838
00:49:22,394 --> 00:49:24,873
until someone paid attention.

839
00:49:24,874 --> 00:49:27,702
And because of that,
his killings were found.

840
00:49:27,703 --> 00:49:31,054
So it became so sensational
and it became so newsworthy

841
00:49:31,055 --> 00:49:33,883
that subconsciously
or consciously,

842
00:49:34,972 --> 00:49:37,061
that's when he decided
to stop killing.

843
00:49:37,844 --> 00:49:40,150
I think he was very concerned
about getting caught

844
00:49:40,151 --> 00:49:42,282
and I think he knew he
was gonna get caught.

845
00:49:42,283 --> 00:49:45,069
And it's been 14 years.

846
00:49:54,774 --> 00:49:56,036
<i>I don't know.</i>

847
00:49:57,995 --> 00:49:59,213
<i>But,</i>

848
00:50:00,606 --> 00:50:02,173
one was too many.

849
00:50:02,869 --> 00:50:04,479
One was too many.

850
00:50:31,637 --> 00:50:32,681
Yeah.

851
00:50:38,122 --> 00:50:40,036
<i>So, I walk into the jail.</i>

852
00:50:40,037 --> 00:50:41,299
<i>I go through security.</i>

853
00:50:42,561 --> 00:50:44,258
<i>Rex is already sitting there.</i>

854
00:50:47,044 --> 00:50:49,654
<i>And he was absolutely</i>

855
00:50:49,655 --> 00:50:51,831
<i>analyzing me in his mind.</i>

856
00:50:54,703 --> 00:50:56,182
<i>He looked at me</i>

857
00:50:56,183 --> 00:50:57,444
<i>and he said to me,</i>

858
00:50:57,445 --> 00:50:59,446
like he was special,

859
00:50:59,447 --> 00:51:01,971
"Have you ever sat with
a serial killer before?"

860
00:51:02,885 --> 00:51:04,582
<i>I know his body language,</i>

861
00:51:04,583 --> 00:51:05,974
<i>and I know where
it's coming from.</i>

862
00:51:05,975 --> 00:51:07,499
And it's coming
from the narcissism.

863
00:51:08,326 --> 00:51:10,502
So, I looked right
at him, and I paused.

864
00:51:11,242 --> 00:51:12,720
<i>And I said,</i>

865
00:51:12,721 --> 00:51:14,461
<i>"I have not,</i>

866
00:51:14,462 --> 00:51:16,856
but you're all the same."

867
00:51:17,248 --> 00:51:18,466
I said, "You're
not that special."

868
00:51:20,164 --> 00:51:22,079
And he looked at me,
and he just froze.

869
00:51:24,342 --> 00:51:25,820
<i>And then, eventually,
you build a rapport,</i>

870
00:51:25,821 --> 00:51:27,300
<i>you build trust,</i>

871
00:51:27,301 --> 00:51:29,347
<i>you build a connection.</i>

872
00:51:31,305 --> 00:51:34,046
<i>And finally, it happened.</i>

873
00:51:34,047 --> 00:51:35,874
<i>He looked at me</i>

874
00:51:35,875 --> 00:51:36,831
right in the face,

875
00:51:36,832 --> 00:51:38,050
right in the eyes,

876
00:51:38,051 --> 00:51:39,357
and he turned his
whole body toward me.

877
00:51:41,054 --> 00:51:43,316
<i>And he goes, "Do
you have any idea</i>

878
00:51:43,317 --> 00:51:45,363
what it's like to
wanna kill someone?"

879
00:51:46,190 --> 00:51:48,539
<i>"To hurt, to kill,</i>

880
00:51:48,540 --> 00:51:50,411
<i>to play God and end
somebody's life?</i>

881
00:51:51,586 --> 00:51:53,022
You don't know
what that's like."

882
00:51:55,677 --> 00:51:58,810
<i>After that, Rex is sharing
everything with me.</i>

883
00:51:58,811 --> 00:52:00,855
Details about the crimes,

884
00:52:00,856 --> 00:52:03,293
<i>his mind, how he thinks.</i>

885
00:52:03,294 --> 00:52:05,992
So, the deeper that gets,
the darker that gets.

886
00:52:15,784 --> 00:52:16,828
<i>Why, he does not know.</i>

887
00:52:16,829 --> 00:52:17,698
<i>I've asked.</i>

888
00:52:17,699 --> 00:52:19,222
<i>I've asked the why.</i>

889
00:52:19,223 --> 00:52:21,789
They really don't have
answers in those moments.

890
00:52:21,790 --> 00:52:22,834
They don't.

891
00:52:22,835 --> 00:52:24,705
He doesn't know why.

892
00:52:24,706 --> 00:52:27,317
<i>The only thing that he's
able to really come up with</i>

893
00:52:27,318 --> 00:52:30,147
is that he gets to
know them as people.

894
00:52:31,539 --> 00:52:33,105
<i>If he gets to know someone,
he gets vulnerable.</i>

895
00:52:33,106 --> 00:52:34,933
<i>He's not in total control.</i>

896
00:52:34,934 --> 00:52:37,022
So, if he felt he was
losing a sense of control,

897
00:52:37,023 --> 00:52:38,719
what would he do?

898
00:52:38,720 --> 00:52:40,895
He would pursue with a kill,

899
00:52:40,896 --> 00:52:42,158
which was planned,

900
00:52:42,159 --> 00:52:43,985
'cause he set up his
house for it prior.

901
00:52:43,986 --> 00:52:45,204
So, he met them once.

902
00:52:45,205 --> 00:52:47,380
He got to know them,
had a transaction,

903
00:52:47,381 --> 00:52:49,556
set up a second time,

904
00:52:49,557 --> 00:52:50,993
and had his four-day plan.

905
00:52:51,994 --> 00:52:53,865
Day one was the prep,

906
00:52:53,866 --> 00:52:55,346
<i>which, he cleaned
the entire basement</i>

907
00:52:56,999 --> 00:52:58,958
<i>and he would prepare</i>

908
00:53:00,046 --> 00:53:02,353
<i>for his time with
them in the house.</i>

909
00:53:03,528 --> 00:53:06,225
The second day, he's
with the victim,

910
00:53:06,226 --> 00:53:08,532
<i>which he says was
always very enjoyable</i>

911
00:53:08,533 --> 00:53:10,795
<i>and he was very kind,</i>

912
00:53:10,796 --> 00:53:12,450
until they were
gonna be murdered.

913
00:53:13,233 --> 00:53:14,843
<i>And then, a lot of it
was the postmortem,</i>

914
00:53:16,062 --> 00:53:17,194
<i>his playtime.</i>

915
00:53:18,107 --> 00:53:19,761
<i>And that night was the dump.</i>

916
00:53:21,589 --> 00:53:24,112
The third day was
his cleanup day.

917
00:53:24,113 --> 00:53:27,377
<i>He had to take every
single thing he used,</i>

918
00:53:27,378 --> 00:53:29,074
<i>tools,</i>

919
00:53:29,075 --> 00:53:30,380
<i>tarps,</i>

920
00:53:30,381 --> 00:53:33,209
<i>clothes, everything.</i>

921
00:53:33,210 --> 00:53:35,167
And he would dispose
of it so there was,

922
00:53:35,168 --> 00:53:36,865
in his mind, no evidence.

923
00:53:38,476 --> 00:53:41,173
<i>He would say, "Well, day four
is in case of emergencies.</i>

924
00:53:41,174 --> 00:53:43,393
<i>I just need the extra day.</i>

925
00:53:43,394 --> 00:53:46,134
<i>It's a four-day high."</i>

926
00:53:46,135 --> 00:53:50,139
It's a four-day
adrenaline rush.

927
00:53:52,751 --> 00:53:54,448
<i>And then, he'd fly
out to his family.</i>

928
00:54:01,194 --> 00:54:02,456
<i>Exactly.</i>

929
00:54:03,979 --> 00:54:06,633
<i>He told me that he
would take a stopwatch</i>

930
00:54:06,634 --> 00:54:08,549
<i>before he would dump
a body at Gilgo Beach.</i>

931
00:54:11,073 --> 00:54:13,553
And he went from his first kill,

932
00:54:13,554 --> 00:54:15,948
<i>two minutes and 32 seconds,</i>

933
00:54:17,471 --> 00:54:19,646
to his last kill at Gilgo.

934
00:54:19,647 --> 00:54:21,561
<i>He would hit the timer,</i>

935
00:54:21,562 --> 00:54:23,041
<i>dump the body, get
back in the truck,</i>

936
00:54:23,042 --> 00:54:24,261
<i>and hit the timer again.</i>

937
00:54:25,914 --> 00:54:27,264
Thirty-seven seconds.

938
00:54:28,352 --> 00:54:31,745
<i>He's so meticulous,
detail-oriented,</i>

939
00:54:31,746 --> 00:54:34,748
<i>pathological,
control, domination.</i>

940
00:54:34,749 --> 00:54:37,186
<i>He had to beat himself
at his own game.</i>

941
00:54:37,665 --> 00:54:39,623
Clearly, he enjoyed killing,

942
00:54:39,624 --> 00:54:41,886
and it became a
sickness for him.

943
00:54:41,887 --> 00:54:43,017
<i>It became an outlet.</i>

944
00:54:43,018 --> 00:54:44,498
<i>It became an obsession.</i>

945
00:54:49,024 --> 00:54:50,287
<i>"Session 12.</i>

946
00:54:51,244 --> 00:54:54,159
Today, Rex opened up
about his childhood,

947
00:54:54,160 --> 00:54:56,596
<i>his impressionable years.</i>

948
00:54:56,597 --> 00:54:59,860
<i>Rex doesn't remember
much of his childhood,</i>

949
00:54:59,861 --> 00:55:02,210
<i>but some of those memories
are starting to return</i>

950
00:55:02,211 --> 00:55:04,170
<i>as we talk about
it more and more."</i>

951
00:55:07,304 --> 00:55:08,826
He was not approachable.

952
00:55:08,827 --> 00:55:11,481
Very domineering, very
controlling,

953
00:55:11,482 --> 00:55:12,917
<i>loud.</i>

954
00:55:12,918 --> 00:55:14,658
<i>He was always being
yelled at, screamed at.</i>

955
00:55:14,659 --> 00:55:15,790
<i>He did nothing right.</i>

956
00:55:17,879 --> 00:55:21,491
He was a man of integrity.

957
00:55:21,492 --> 00:55:24,537
<i>He spent time with his children.</i>

958
00:55:24,538 --> 00:55:25,799
<i>Whenever dad was home,</i>

959
00:55:25,800 --> 00:55:27,540
they would be in the garage,

960
00:55:27,541 --> 00:55:29,586
hanging out with dad.

961
00:55:29,587 --> 00:55:31,327
<i>He fought in World War II.</i>

962
00:55:31,328 --> 00:55:33,068
<i>He was a co-pilot.</i>

963
00:55:34,505 --> 00:55:38,682
One of Rex's favorite TV
shows is "Hogan's Heroes".

964
00:55:38,683 --> 00:55:40,597
Hogan!

965
00:55:40,598 --> 00:55:43,948
It reminded him of his father.

966
00:55:43,949 --> 00:55:45,733
Don't look at me,
I only work here.

967
00:55:46,691 --> 00:55:49,171
Airplanes, pilots.

968
00:55:50,521 --> 00:55:53,697
<i>Rex had always wanted
to join the Air Force,</i>

969
00:55:53,698 --> 00:55:56,222
<i>but he couldn't because
he was dyslexic.</i>

970
00:55:58,616 --> 00:56:00,269
So, he was disappointed.

971
00:56:02,707 --> 00:56:05,186
<i>He died when Rex was 12.</i>

972
00:56:05,187 --> 00:56:08,102
He had been ill,

973
00:56:08,103 --> 00:56:10,715
<i>but it was a sudden death,
though, for everybody.</i>

974
00:56:11,890 --> 00:56:13,847
<i>His dad was very
critical of him,</i>

975
00:56:13,848 --> 00:56:15,980
<i>and I do believe it manifested</i>

976
00:56:15,981 --> 00:56:20,201
<i>into why he's very methodical,</i>

977
00:56:20,202 --> 00:56:21,899
<i>OCD,</i>

978
00:56:21,900 --> 00:56:24,031
<i>obsessive on certain things,</i>

979
00:56:24,032 --> 00:56:25,991
<i>because he was
criticized so much.</i>

980
00:56:35,174 --> 00:56:39,264
Dolores was not hard
on Rex at all, okay?

981
00:56:39,265 --> 00:56:41,875
She had five children.

982
00:56:41,876 --> 00:56:44,878
Every single one of them
had a uniqueness to them,

983
00:56:44,879 --> 00:56:46,402
and she,

984
00:56:46,403 --> 00:56:47,491
<i>she was proud of them.</i>

985
00:56:53,714 --> 00:56:55,194
Not available.

986
00:56:56,500 --> 00:56:58,893
<i>His mother wasn't emotionally
available for him.</i>

987
00:57:00,199 --> 00:57:02,635
<i>She was self-absorbed
and detached</i>

988
00:57:02,636 --> 00:57:04,898
<i>from any emotions that he had</i>

989
00:57:04,899 --> 00:57:07,685
or any grief in
regards to his own dad.

990
00:57:08,947 --> 00:57:10,948
<i>He says he pretty
much raised himself.</i>

991
00:57:10,949 --> 00:57:12,428
<i>Dad passes away,</i>

992
00:57:12,429 --> 00:57:16,388
<i>Mom's trying to run a
house with five children.</i>

993
00:57:16,389 --> 00:57:17,782
<i>It was chaos in the house.</i>

994
00:57:19,784 --> 00:57:21,786
<i>So, Rex didn't have
much of a voice.</i>

995
00:57:23,135 --> 00:57:25,093
<i>He wasn't really
heard as a child.</i>

996
00:57:26,443 --> 00:57:27,661
<i>And I go, "What did you do?"</i>

997
00:57:28,793 --> 00:57:30,358
<i>He held it all in.</i>

998
00:57:30,359 --> 00:57:31,709
He goes, "I keep it here."

999
00:57:39,586 --> 00:57:42,153
So, Rex in later high
school shares with me

1000
00:57:42,154 --> 00:57:44,504
he starts having thoughts
that he knew weren't healthy.

1001
00:57:45,462 --> 00:57:48,202
<i>He did not know what
they were, per se.</i>

1002
00:57:48,203 --> 00:57:50,161
<i>He did not know</i>

1003
00:57:50,162 --> 00:57:51,424
<i>how violent they were.</i>

1004
00:57:52,643 --> 00:57:54,166
<i>But he knew his
thinking wasn't right.</i>

1005
00:57:56,124 --> 00:57:58,604
<i>Rex knew there was a
piece of him missing.</i>

1006
00:57:58,605 --> 00:58:00,780
<i>He didn't know what
that piece was.</i>

1007
00:58:00,781 --> 00:58:02,348
<i>He couldn't put it into words.</i>

1008
00:58:04,219 --> 00:58:06,831
<i>So, he started pornography,</i>

1009
00:58:07,962 --> 00:58:09,572
<i>books on death.</i>

1010
00:58:09,573 --> 00:58:12,053
<i>He became very fascinated
with dissecting a human body</i>

1011
00:58:13,272 --> 00:58:14,968
<i>and the sex, and
the pornography,</i>

1012
00:58:14,969 --> 00:58:17,405
<i>and the human body,
and all of that</i>

1013
00:58:17,406 --> 00:58:20,627
<i>in a mind that's not healthy
is a very dangerous recipe.</i>

1014
00:58:22,368 --> 00:58:24,108
<i>There was one session
in particular,</i>

1015
00:58:24,109 --> 00:58:25,892
<i>he told me about a book.</i>

1016
00:58:25,893 --> 00:58:27,807
It's called "Death Scenes."

1017
00:58:27,808 --> 00:58:29,070
It was hard to look at.

1018
00:58:30,245 --> 00:58:31,594
<i>It's bodies mutilated,</i>

1019
00:58:31,595 --> 00:58:33,335
<i>heads cut off, arms cut off,</i>

1020
00:58:34,946 --> 00:58:37,861
hundreds and hundreds
of wounds everywhere,

1021
00:58:37,862 --> 00:58:38,863
<i>pure mutilation.</i>

1022
00:58:40,168 --> 00:58:41,821
That's what was fascinating him

1023
00:58:41,822 --> 00:58:44,432
and that's what was
feeding his mind.

1024
00:58:44,433 --> 00:58:48,742
<i>There was no healthy sexual
experiences in his life.</i>

1025
00:58:49,613 --> 00:58:53,180
<i>Maybe he witnessed
an unhealthy event</i>

1026
00:58:53,181 --> 00:58:54,921
that he wasn't able
to process right.

1027
00:58:54,922 --> 00:58:57,489
Sex and violence went
hand in hand for him

1028
00:58:57,490 --> 00:58:59,273
<i>somewhere, subconsciously.</i>

1029
00:58:59,274 --> 00:59:01,232
It goes one layer,
one layer, one layer,

1030
00:59:01,233 --> 00:59:03,277
<i>one thought feeds
another thought,</i>

1031
00:59:03,278 --> 00:59:04,670
feeds another thought,
feeds another thought,

1032
00:59:04,671 --> 00:59:06,454
deeper and deeper and deeper

1033
00:59:06,455 --> 00:59:08,544
to more and more evil.

1034
00:59:08,545 --> 00:59:10,067
<i>He couldn't put
the brakes on it.</i>

1035
00:59:10,068 --> 00:59:12,199
<i>He had no control
of stopping it.</i>

1036
00:59:12,200 --> 00:59:13,158
It overrides him.

1037
00:59:14,594 --> 00:59:16,073
<i>He kept it all inside,</i>

1038
00:59:16,074 --> 00:59:17,465
<i>fed his own addiction,</i>

1039
00:59:17,466 --> 00:59:18,903
<i>his own demons.</i>

1040
00:59:21,166 --> 00:59:23,602
<i>And it led him to a place</i>

1041
00:59:23,603 --> 00:59:26,083
he hurt other people.

1042
00:59:26,084 --> 00:59:27,780
<i>Brutally.</i>

1043
00:59:27,781 --> 00:59:29,303
<i>Violently.</i>

1044
00:59:29,304 --> 00:59:30,784
<i>His outlet was...</i>

1045
00:59:36,442 --> 00:59:38,009
to kill.

1046
00:59:48,976 --> 00:59:50,498
<i>"Dear Mr. Douglas,</i>

1047
00:59:50,499 --> 00:59:52,589
<i>I hope this message
finds you well."</i>

1048
00:59:55,069 --> 00:59:55,940
Sure.

1049
01:00:06,428 --> 01:00:09,648
<i>"I'm currently working
with Rex Heuermann,</i>

1050
01:00:09,649 --> 01:00:12,957
<i>often referred to as the
Gilgo Beach Serial Killer.</i>

1051
01:00:13,914 --> 01:00:15,873
<i>Mr. Heuermann has
studied your books.</i>

1052
01:00:16,438 --> 01:00:19,398
<i>In fact, he and I discussed
"Mindhunter" often.</i>

1053
01:00:21,182 --> 01:00:24,184
<i>We're trying to get to the
root cause of his fantasies</i>

1054
01:00:24,185 --> 01:00:26,970
<i>which created his urges to kill.</i>

1055
01:00:26,971 --> 01:00:29,363
<i>He can't explain
why he did this.</i>

1056
01:00:29,364 --> 01:00:31,496
<i>Is he a true psychopath?</i>

1057
01:00:31,497 --> 01:00:32,629
<i>I don't know.</i>

1058
01:00:33,630 --> 01:00:35,326
<i>I know there's a
chemical component,</i>

1059
01:00:35,327 --> 01:00:36,588
<i>a genetic component,</i>

1060
01:00:36,589 --> 01:00:38,546
<i>family component.</i>

1061
01:00:38,547 --> 01:00:40,898
<i>There's a little bit of
everything overlapping at once.</i>

1062
01:00:42,856 --> 01:00:44,640
I would love to talk to you more

1063
01:00:44,641 --> 01:00:47,426
and get your expert
opinion on this topic."

1064
01:00:52,344 --> 01:00:54,388
Alison, how are you?

1065
01:00:54,389 --> 01:00:55,476
Hi John, how are you?

1066
01:00:55,477 --> 01:00:56,652
Welcome, welcome, come on in.

1067
01:00:56,653 --> 01:00:58,175
Thank you, thank
you for having me.

1068
01:00:58,176 --> 01:00:59,655
Yeah, it's great for
coming here, thank you.

1069
01:00:59,656 --> 01:01:01,482
I have your book.

1070
01:01:01,483 --> 01:01:02,875
I do, I have your book.

1071
01:01:02,876 --> 01:01:04,181
I was wondering
who bought my book.

1072
01:01:04,182 --> 01:01:05,965
That was me.

1073
01:01:05,966 --> 01:01:07,575
What you were able
to do was amazing,

1074
01:01:07,576 --> 01:01:09,665
getting to interview the...

1075
01:01:09,666 --> 01:01:12,102
not only the subject in
the case but the family.

1076
01:01:12,103 --> 01:01:13,277
I've never done that before.

1077
01:01:13,278 --> 01:01:15,192
Usually, I'll
interview the subject,

1078
01:01:15,193 --> 01:01:17,281
maybe sometimes he's
already incarcerated,

1079
01:01:17,282 --> 01:01:19,283
and the victims, I deal with
victims of violent crime.

1080
01:01:19,284 --> 01:01:22,852
But this, you're
really, it's great.

1081
01:01:22,853 --> 01:01:25,332
That's why I was so excited
to come speak with you

1082
01:01:25,333 --> 01:01:27,683
because it is a
different perspective.

1083
01:01:27,684 --> 01:01:29,728
I'm grounded in family systems,

1084
01:01:29,729 --> 01:01:33,036
so my goal is to take
trauma of families,

1085
01:01:33,037 --> 01:01:37,431
whatever the trauma is,
and to help them navigate

1086
01:01:37,432 --> 01:01:40,826
to hopefully a healthier
place so they can move on.

1087
01:01:40,827 --> 01:01:44,351
This specific family,
Asa is so loyal,

1088
01:01:44,352 --> 01:01:47,354
so dependent on Rex,

1089
01:01:47,355 --> 01:01:49,182
<i>where I realized
very early on</i>

1090
01:01:49,183 --> 01:01:52,359
<i>that I needed him
to help me help her</i>

1091
01:01:52,360 --> 01:01:53,797
<i>because the denial was thick.</i>

1092
01:01:54,885 --> 01:01:56,842
But Asa always says to me,

1093
01:01:56,843 --> 01:01:58,757
"How on earth can he call me

1094
01:01:58,758 --> 01:02:00,411
<i>to make sure I got
to Vermont safely?</i>

1095
01:02:00,412 --> 01:02:01,629
<i>Call me three to
four times a day,</i>

1096
01:02:01,630 --> 01:02:02,805
<i>show up at work,</i>

1097
01:02:02,806 --> 01:02:04,851
<i>live his daily life.</i>

1098
01:02:05,765 --> 01:02:09,377
How does he jump from one
mind to the other mind?"

1099
01:02:12,467 --> 01:02:15,121
They do not identify
with these victims

1100
01:02:15,122 --> 01:02:16,862
like you and I would do.

1101
01:02:16,863 --> 01:02:18,603
In fact, I used to
have major arguments

1102
01:02:18,604 --> 01:02:19,909
with law enforcement.

1103
01:02:19,910 --> 01:02:23,260
"Don't polygraph, do not
polygraph these guys."

1104
01:02:23,261 --> 01:02:26,480
These crimes are
justifiable in their mind.

1105
01:02:26,481 --> 01:02:29,309
So you're not gonna get
any reaction out of them.

1106
01:02:29,310 --> 01:02:30,485
Interesting.

1107
01:02:31,748 --> 01:02:34,793
I was involved in
the BTK investigation

1108
01:02:34,794 --> 01:02:37,753
<i>first in 1979
and then in 1984,</i>

1109
01:02:37,754 --> 01:02:39,058
<i>I did the analysis.</i>

1110
01:02:39,059 --> 01:02:42,148
Very similar with Rex here.

1111
01:02:42,149 --> 01:02:45,282
<i>Had children, each lived
in the same small house.</i>

1112
01:02:45,283 --> 01:02:49,416
Each house was originally
their parents' home,

1113
01:02:49,417 --> 01:02:51,679
which is very, very unique.

1114
01:02:51,680 --> 01:02:55,771
BTK, he surfaced somewhere
in his late 20s too.

1115
01:02:55,772 --> 01:02:58,861
Very similar types of
backgrounds, the fantasies.

1116
01:02:58,862 --> 01:03:02,560
But if I would have Dennis
Rader here and Rex here,

1117
01:03:02,561 --> 01:03:06,260
I believe that Rader
would be jealous of Rex.

1118
01:03:08,045 --> 01:03:09,524
<i>Why is that?</i>

1119
01:03:10,308 --> 01:03:11,917
<i>The ultimate
with these subjects</i>

1120
01:03:11,918 --> 01:03:14,354
is to keep the victim
for a period of time.

1121
01:03:14,355 --> 01:03:16,704
<i>In the fantasy, they
have them locked up,</i>

1122
01:03:16,705 --> 01:03:18,358
<i>they have them in a room</i>

1123
01:03:18,359 --> 01:03:21,319
and that was a strong
fantasy with Dennis Rader.

1124
01:03:22,233 --> 01:03:23,974
But he didn't have that room,
he didn't have that location.

1125
01:03:25,018 --> 01:03:26,453
<i>So here we have Rex,</i>

1126
01:03:26,454 --> 01:03:28,586
<i>he has the place to do
whatever he wants to do</i>

1127
01:03:28,587 --> 01:03:30,458
<i>to carry out his
sadistic fantasies.</i>

1128
01:03:31,895 --> 01:03:33,809
<i>I don't know if he told you
any of this about fantasy,</i>

1129
01:03:33,810 --> 01:03:35,506
<i>how he did get
heavy into fantasy</i>

1130
01:03:35,507 --> 01:03:37,378
<i>'cause that's how it all begins.</i>

1131
01:03:38,815 --> 01:03:40,816
With fantasy, everything works.

1132
01:03:40,817 --> 01:03:42,687
Everything is perfect
in the fantasy

1133
01:03:42,688 --> 01:03:45,169
and they have a, we call
preferential victim.

1134
01:03:46,997 --> 01:03:51,044
A preferential victim may be
a certain size, petite, color.

1135
01:03:52,437 --> 01:03:55,569
<i>So I'm on the hunt and
these predators do hunt.</i>

1136
01:03:55,570 --> 01:03:57,049
<i>They hunt looking for victims</i>

1137
01:03:57,050 --> 01:03:58,791
<i>that they're sure they
can get away with.</i>

1138
01:04:00,010 --> 01:04:01,401
You look into a
crowd differently

1139
01:04:01,402 --> 01:04:03,273
than he would look into a crowd.

1140
01:04:03,274 --> 01:04:05,841
He is the lion on
a Serengeti plain.

1141
01:04:05,842 --> 01:04:07,843
He's not gonna go after
the water buffalo

1142
01:04:07,844 --> 01:04:09,975
<i>that's strong and healthy.</i>

1143
01:04:09,976 --> 01:04:13,152
<i>The lion is looking at weakness.</i>

1144
01:04:13,153 --> 01:04:17,070
So these guys like Rex are the
lion on the Serengeti plain.

1145
01:04:20,160 --> 01:04:22,466
In speaking with Rex,
he always said to me

1146
01:04:22,467 --> 01:04:24,294
and he still says consistently,

1147
01:04:24,295 --> 01:04:26,122
"It's not about the women,

1148
01:04:26,123 --> 01:04:27,775
it's not the women."

1149
01:04:27,776 --> 01:04:30,256
Which leads me to believe,
and we talk about,

1150
01:04:30,257 --> 01:04:32,215
it's clearly he's detached

1151
01:04:32,216 --> 01:04:35,087
<i>from the person
that he's mutilating</i>

1152
01:04:35,088 --> 01:04:38,178
<i>but he gets a lot of
self-gratification postmortem.</i>

1153
01:04:39,136 --> 01:04:40,876
<i>He could say what he wants</i>

1154
01:04:40,877 --> 01:04:42,966
<i>but it's still sadistic.</i>

1155
01:04:45,185 --> 01:04:47,405
It's the violence that
really turns him on.

1156
01:04:48,145 --> 01:04:51,887
He does it downstairs
in the kill room,

1157
01:04:51,888 --> 01:04:53,672
which was his old bedroom

1158
01:04:54,629 --> 01:04:56,848
<i>where he keeps a lot of
his childhood memories.</i>

1159
01:04:56,849 --> 01:04:59,329
It's a comfort zone for him,

1160
01:04:59,330 --> 01:05:01,418
just like the disposal
sites are a comfort zone.

1161
01:05:01,419 --> 01:05:03,334
<i>There has to be some
attachment there.</i>

1162
01:05:06,380 --> 01:05:08,207
<i>He put these
victims through hell</i>

1163
01:05:08,208 --> 01:05:09,948
<i>and it wasn't a swift kill.</i>

1164
01:05:09,949 --> 01:05:13,212
<i>It didn't have to be a swift
kill because no one was home.</i>

1165
01:05:13,213 --> 01:05:14,561
<i>No one could hear the screams</i>

1166
01:05:14,562 --> 01:05:16,347
<i>and yells coming
from his cellar.</i>

1167
01:05:18,088 --> 01:05:19,915
Is he a psychopath,
is my question?

1168
01:05:19,916 --> 01:05:21,612
Oh yeah, definitely
a psychopath.

1169
01:05:21,613 --> 01:05:23,875
When he's doing these killings,

1170
01:05:23,876 --> 01:05:25,833
he has to be...

1171
01:05:25,834 --> 01:05:29,794
what's going through his mind
has to be something related

1172
01:05:29,795 --> 01:05:30,926
to early on his life.
- To a trauma.

1173
01:05:30,927 --> 01:05:32,015
Trauma in his life.

1174
01:05:32,841 --> 01:05:34,103
<i>I wouldn't be surprised</i>

1175
01:05:34,104 --> 01:05:36,583
<i>if there's a sexual
component of this.</i>

1176
01:05:36,584 --> 01:05:38,804
Something happened to him
very, very early in his life.

1177
01:05:41,894 --> 01:05:43,503
<i>There's something there.</i>

1178
01:05:43,504 --> 01:05:46,854
So you feel that he knows the
answers to a lot of the why.

1179
01:05:46,855 --> 01:05:48,247
- Yeah.
- He's just not

1180
01:05:48,248 --> 01:05:49,945
ready to verbalize it.

1181
01:05:49,946 --> 01:05:52,295
- Yeah, they know.
- They know the answers.

1182
01:05:52,296 --> 01:05:55,298
Something went on
there with him sexually,

1183
01:05:55,299 --> 01:05:56,735
something had to do that.

1184
01:05:58,041 --> 01:06:01,521
So the notion that Rex

1185
01:06:01,522 --> 01:06:04,264
created a kill room
in his childhood room,

1186
01:06:05,048 --> 01:06:08,615
<i>is there an overlap there
subconsciously or consciously?</i>

1187
01:06:08,616 --> 01:06:10,835
<i>I think with the kill room,</i>

1188
01:06:10,836 --> 01:06:12,445
it started as a teenager.

1189
01:06:12,446 --> 01:06:14,099
<i>I could see him as a teenager</i>

1190
01:06:14,100 --> 01:06:17,494
<i>beginning a lot of these
fantasies in his teen years.</i>

1191
01:06:17,495 --> 01:06:20,411
It may have been
fueled by pornography.

1192
01:06:23,501 --> 01:06:24,936
<i>That kind of stuff
starts very, very young.</i>

1193
01:06:24,937 --> 01:06:27,504
<i>It doesn't always have
to start in the mid-20s.</i>

1194
01:06:27,505 --> 01:06:29,028
<i>And he says it started young.</i>

1195
01:06:29,898 --> 01:06:32,335
<i>In your fantasy,
you're writing a script.</i>

1196
01:06:32,336 --> 01:06:35,555
The script is being written
through your fantasy.

1197
01:06:35,556 --> 01:06:39,646
This stuff has to fester,
fester at an early age.

1198
01:06:39,647 --> 01:06:41,170
<i>In those teens when he was down</i>

1199
01:06:41,171 --> 01:06:43,868
<i>in his room down there
going through puberty,</i>

1200
01:06:43,869 --> 01:06:46,392
<i>his fantasies, I'm
sure were different</i>

1201
01:06:46,393 --> 01:06:48,394
kind of fantasies than a
normal kind of teenager.

1202
01:06:48,395 --> 01:06:49,613
And he'll admit to that.

1203
01:06:49,614 --> 01:06:52,746
That would fit and
it would be violent.

1204
01:06:52,747 --> 01:06:55,010
A violent kind of tendency.

1205
01:06:55,011 --> 01:06:57,012
<i>Are they ever free
of that urge?</i>

1206
01:06:57,013 --> 01:06:58,535
<i>No, they never get free.</i>

1207
01:06:58,536 --> 01:07:00,711
<i>The urges never go away?</i>

1208
01:07:00,712 --> 01:07:03,409
I need to keep reminding,
it's not a sexual thing.

1209
01:07:03,410 --> 01:07:06,151
It's anger, power, control.
- Oh, I believe that.

1210
01:07:06,152 --> 01:07:07,587
- Domination.
- I could see that with Rex.

1211
01:07:07,588 --> 01:07:08,936
<i>Yeah.</i>

1212
01:07:08,937 --> 01:07:10,547
With insecurity, some
of the most gregarious

1213
01:07:10,548 --> 01:07:12,462
serial killers you'd
ever want to meet,

1214
01:07:12,463 --> 01:07:17,032
say like a Ted Bundy, have
strong feelings of inadequacies.

1215
01:07:17,033 --> 01:07:18,729
How can this inadequate nobody

1216
01:07:18,730 --> 01:07:22,125
become somebody to regain
his power and and control?

1217
01:07:23,517 --> 01:07:24,823
<i>I can go out and kill.</i>

1218
01:07:26,259 --> 01:07:27,999
And he didn't start killing

1219
01:07:28,000 --> 01:07:29,957
according to him
until he was 30.

1220
01:07:29,958 --> 01:07:31,785
He's admitted to eight.

1221
01:07:31,786 --> 01:07:34,614
Do we believe that, am
I naive to believe that?

1222
01:07:34,615 --> 01:07:36,748
I don't believe he
started killing at 30.

1223
01:07:38,097 --> 01:07:41,099
There may be cases that he
does not want to admit to

1224
01:07:41,100 --> 01:07:43,536
because in those states,
like where he has a house

1225
01:07:43,537 --> 01:07:45,234
I believe in South Carolina-
- It's death penalty.

1226
01:07:45,235 --> 01:07:46,583
And I've worked
many cases down there,

1227
01:07:46,584 --> 01:07:48,238
they got the death
penalty and they use it.

1228
01:07:50,196 --> 01:07:52,415
In South Carolina
where Rex Heuermann

1229
01:07:52,416 --> 01:07:54,939
has property and his
brother has property,

1230
01:07:54,940 --> 01:07:58,073
<i>investigators were curious
about a missing teenager,</i>

1231
01:07:58,074 --> 01:08:00,858
<i>Aaliyah Bell and also a woman,</i>

1232
01:08:00,859 --> 01:08:02,774
<i>Julia Ann Bean, who was 36.</i>

1233
01:08:03,775 --> 01:08:04,862
Eighteen-year-old
Aaliyah Bell

1234
01:08:04,863 --> 01:08:06,603
went missing back in 2014.

1235
01:08:06,604 --> 01:08:08,779
Bell disappeared
around 20 miles

1236
01:08:08,780 --> 01:08:10,868
from property
owned by Heuermann.

1237
01:08:10,869 --> 01:08:12,652
<i>In Julia Ann Bean's case,</i>

1238
01:08:12,653 --> 01:08:15,090
her daughter saw a
picture of Rex Heuermann

1239
01:08:15,091 --> 01:08:18,093
and said, "That's the guy that
I last saw with my mother."

1240
01:08:18,094 --> 01:08:20,138
She recognized him right away.

1241
01:08:20,139 --> 01:08:22,793
She said that was the
last person she ever saw

1242
01:08:22,794 --> 01:08:24,925
with her mom.

1243
01:08:24,926 --> 01:08:27,363
<i>I think he has a lot
of hidden secrets here.</i>

1244
01:08:27,364 --> 01:08:29,147
<i>He's a malignant, narcissistic,</i>

1245
01:08:29,148 --> 01:08:32,150
<i>sadistic, psychopathic
serial killer.</i>

1246
01:08:32,151 --> 01:08:33,586
Had he not been apprehended,

1247
01:08:33,587 --> 01:08:35,154
I think he would've killed more.

1248
01:09:08,492 --> 01:09:09,406
I do.

1249
01:09:10,929 --> 01:09:12,322
I do, I do forgive him.

1250
01:09:13,758 --> 01:09:15,629
I can't move
forward unless I do.

1251
01:09:16,891 --> 01:09:20,068
I don't think it's in
my place to forgive him.

1252
01:09:22,506 --> 01:09:24,464
I'm not the one
who's judging him...

1253
01:09:25,857 --> 01:09:27,293
God is.

1254
01:09:29,861 --> 01:09:32,820
So he would need
to get that from...

1255
01:09:33,604 --> 01:09:34,866
God.

1256
01:09:42,178 --> 01:09:45,049
Clearly, like the mind of
a serial killer is beyond,

1257
01:09:45,050 --> 01:09:48,748
<i>it's like we don't
know how it came to be.</i>

1258
01:09:48,749 --> 01:09:51,838
<i>It's one in a million that
like just wound up being one.</i>

1259
01:09:51,839 --> 01:09:53,710
<i>So smart that he completely</i>

1260
01:09:53,711 --> 01:09:56,147
<i>kept it from us and
that's what they do.</i>

1261
01:09:56,148 --> 01:09:57,757
Serial killers don't let

1262
01:09:57,758 --> 01:10:00,238
their loved ones see
their other side.

1263
01:10:00,239 --> 01:10:03,459
But he really was
just those two people

1264
01:10:03,460 --> 01:10:05,374
and they never crossed.

1265
01:10:05,375 --> 01:10:07,812
Like, you know, the two
worlds never crossed.

1266
01:10:08,856 --> 01:10:12,250
When I sat with him alone,
we spoke of that.

1267
01:10:12,251 --> 01:10:14,078
He has time to go through

1268
01:10:14,079 --> 01:10:17,125
all the discovery of
his case in his cell.

1269
01:10:18,431 --> 01:10:21,608
<i>So he sees photos of
all of the eight women</i>

1270
01:10:23,480 --> 01:10:26,917
<i>and he spends time on
these eight women,</i>

1271
01:10:26,918 --> 01:10:29,093
<i>talking with them</i>

1272
01:10:29,094 --> 01:10:31,923
<i>and I said to him,
"What do you say?"</i>

1273
01:10:33,272 --> 01:10:35,708
And he said, "A whole bunch
of different things."

1274
01:10:35,709 --> 01:10:37,971
That was his answer,
"All different things."

1275
01:10:37,972 --> 01:10:42,498
And then he says,
"I look at the dump sites

1276
01:10:42,499 --> 01:10:44,414
<i>and I look at what was done
and I try to connect the two."</i>

1277
01:10:46,807 --> 01:10:48,765
<i>And he can't do it.</i>

1278
01:10:48,766 --> 01:10:51,246
His words, he goes,
"I can't do it, I try.

1279
01:10:51,247 --> 01:10:54,249
It's two different worlds."

1280
01:10:54,250 --> 01:10:55,946
He's trying to connect emotion

1281
01:10:55,947 --> 01:10:58,254
to what he's done and he can't.

1282
01:10:58,689 --> 01:11:01,517
He has emotion with you guys.

1283
01:11:01,518 --> 01:11:03,607
He doesn't have emotion
on the other side of it.

1284
01:11:08,916 --> 01:11:10,439
Tomorrow's a big day.

1285
01:11:10,440 --> 01:11:11,658
Let's get some sleep.

1286
01:11:12,659 --> 01:11:14,138
- All right.
- All right.

1287
01:11:14,139 --> 01:11:15,662
- Thank you.
- 7:15.

1288
01:11:17,098 --> 01:11:18,056
Okay?

1289
01:11:19,318 --> 01:11:20,580
Bright and early.

1290
01:11:34,290 --> 01:11:35,594
<i>Accused Gilgo Beach
serial killer</i>

1291
01:11:35,595 --> 01:11:37,204
<i>Rex Heuermann returns
to Suffolk Court</i>

1292
01:11:37,205 --> 01:11:38,771
<i>for another conference.</i>

1293
01:11:38,772 --> 01:11:40,512
<i>Heuermann's attorney,
Michael Brown,</i>

1294
01:11:40,513 --> 01:11:42,122
<i>says he wants to
break up the trial</i>

1295
01:11:42,123 --> 01:11:45,301
<i>to avoid wrongly convicting
him on all seven slains.</i>

1296
01:11:45,779 --> 01:11:49,042
Each charge must fall
or rise on its own.

1297
01:11:49,043 --> 01:11:50,696
<i>Prosecutors will file
their motion</i>

1298
01:11:50,697 --> 01:11:53,831
<i>for one and only one trial.</i>

1299
01:12:01,534 --> 01:12:03,318
So, Victoria?

1300
01:12:03,319 --> 01:12:04,884
- Yeah?
- Is this the first time

1301
01:12:04,885 --> 01:12:07,713
you're seeing dad since

1302
01:12:07,714 --> 01:12:09,367
he told you he was guilty?

1303
01:12:09,368 --> 01:12:10,630
Yeah.

1304
01:12:11,196 --> 01:12:12,718
<i>The impact was already felt</i>

1305
01:12:12,719 --> 01:12:15,982
<i>when Alison told me my dad
wanted to confess to me,</i>

1306
01:12:15,983 --> 01:12:19,204
and then the meeting with him
was another stage of impact.

1307
01:12:20,031 --> 01:12:22,773
<i>The next chapter is
people's reactions.</i>

1308
01:12:24,688 --> 01:12:28,038
Is the world gonna be
considered as society,

1309
01:12:28,039 --> 01:12:30,780
people are gonna be
considerate enough to know,

1310
01:12:30,781 --> 01:12:33,304
yes, I'm at the daughter
of a serial killer,

1311
01:12:33,305 --> 01:12:35,176
but that does not
mean that I'm him.

1312
01:12:36,134 --> 01:12:37,264
Even to the point
you're gonna see some

1313
01:12:37,265 --> 01:12:39,310
of the victim's families today.

1314
01:12:39,311 --> 01:12:41,661
Asa, same thing, like
knowing what you now know,

1315
01:12:43,054 --> 01:12:45,056
seeing the victim's families,
any different feelings?

1316
01:12:45,926 --> 01:12:47,624
I really don't know.

1317
01:12:49,539 --> 01:12:51,757
I have no idea how...

1318
01:12:51,758 --> 01:12:52,716
You'll feel.

1319
01:13:04,249 --> 01:13:08,470
Well, Victoria's here today
and we know that Peacock said

1320
01:13:08,471 --> 01:13:10,123
that you made a statement
that you thought

1321
01:13:10,124 --> 01:13:12,038
that your father might be guilty

1322
01:13:12,039 --> 01:13:13,213
of the serial killings--

1323
01:13:13,214 --> 01:13:14,737
She's not gonna
respond to anything.

1324
01:13:14,738 --> 01:13:16,260
Based on the publicly
available evidence?

1325
01:13:16,261 --> 01:13:17,828
She's not gonna respond
to anything today.

1326
01:13:18,350 --> 01:13:20,090
Well, today's sort of D-Day.

1327
01:13:20,091 --> 01:13:22,484
I mean, the judge will
decide possibly the date,

1328
01:13:22,485 --> 01:13:24,355
show the date of the trial,

1329
01:13:24,356 --> 01:13:25,704
and also--
- I anticipate a trial date

1330
01:13:25,705 --> 01:13:26,923
being set.
- whether there will be

1331
01:13:26,924 --> 01:13:28,578
seven murders tried or--

1332
01:13:31,668 --> 01:13:34,365
The judge will decide,
we believe,

1333
01:13:34,366 --> 01:13:37,412
whether or not all seven murders
will be tried in one case

1334
01:13:37,413 --> 01:13:39,371
or if there will
be separate trials.

1335
01:13:41,678 --> 01:13:44,767
I think given all of the
success of the prosecution

1336
01:13:44,768 --> 01:13:47,422
in terms of these pretrial
attempts the defense is making,

1337
01:13:47,423 --> 01:13:49,032
they have fewer
and fewer options,

1338
01:13:49,033 --> 01:13:51,208
<i>and this evidence
is overwhelming.</i>

1339
01:13:51,209 --> 01:13:52,818
If I were the defense attorney,

1340
01:13:52,819 --> 01:13:54,865
I'd be encouraging my client
to take a plea, personally.

1341
01:14:11,011 --> 01:14:12,534
Okay.

1342
01:14:12,535 --> 01:14:14,623
Good morning, everybody.
Thanks for coming.

1343
01:14:14,624 --> 01:14:16,799
We are obviously here
with Asa and Victoria

1344
01:14:16,800 --> 01:14:18,453
to listen to
today's proceedings.

1345
01:14:18,454 --> 01:14:21,760
The court, primarily in the
interest of judicial economy

1346
01:14:21,761 --> 01:14:23,545
and given the fact
that the evidence

1347
01:14:23,546 --> 01:14:27,636
of the charges are
inextricably interwoven,

1348
01:14:27,637 --> 01:14:29,246
is not going to sever.

1349
01:14:29,247 --> 01:14:31,335
So all seven of the victims
are gonna be tried together

1350
01:14:31,336 --> 01:14:32,641
in one trial.

1351
01:14:32,642 --> 01:14:34,643
Another nail in the
coffin of the defense.

1352
01:14:34,644 --> 01:14:36,035
There's a lot of talk out there

1353
01:14:36,036 --> 01:14:39,474
that Rex Heuermann might
consider pleading guilty

1354
01:14:39,475 --> 01:14:42,738
to spare his family
the trauma of a trial.

1355
01:14:42,739 --> 01:14:45,392
I think that's a
decision that will be made

1356
01:14:45,393 --> 01:14:47,482
by Mr. Heuermann
and his defense team

1357
01:14:47,483 --> 01:14:48,484
and Mr. Tierney's office.

1358
01:14:49,876 --> 01:14:51,617
- Thank you.
- Okay, thank you.

1359
01:15:02,715 --> 01:15:04,194
Asa, you okay?

1360
01:15:04,195 --> 01:15:06,110
Yes, I'm okay.

1361
01:15:14,684 --> 01:15:16,555
Hold on. This is him again.

1362
01:15:19,036 --> 01:15:20,384
<i>An incarcerated individual</i>

1363
01:15:20,385 --> 01:15:23,256
<i>at Suffolk County
Correctional Facility.</i>

1364
01:15:23,257 --> 01:15:25,303
<i>This call is subject to
recording and monitoring.</i>

1365
01:15:27,348 --> 01:15:28,349
Hello.

1366
01:15:58,336 --> 01:15:59,685
Yeah, but you will
in the future.

1367
01:16:02,688 --> 01:16:04,080
Okay.

1368
01:16:04,081 --> 01:16:05,516
I am patie--

1369
01:16:05,517 --> 01:16:06,778
I am patient.

1370
01:16:06,779 --> 01:16:08,302
I can wait.

1371
01:16:10,348 --> 01:16:13,873
I always knew you didn't have
as much patience as I do,

1372
01:16:15,309 --> 01:16:18,269
but perhaps maybe you will
be forced to be patient.

1373
01:16:28,061 --> 01:16:29,672
<i>My feelings are shifting.</i>

1374
01:16:30,586 --> 01:16:32,412
One thing is ending,

1375
01:16:32,413 --> 01:16:34,590
and now there's a new chapter.

1376
01:16:37,680 --> 01:16:41,160
In my hopes with Alison
coming to visit you,

1377
01:16:41,161 --> 01:16:43,772
I'm really honestly
hoping that you will know

1378
01:16:43,773 --> 01:16:45,992
that I am okay.

1379
01:16:48,168 --> 01:16:49,648
I have my moments.

1380
01:17:01,181 --> 01:17:02,313
Do you look at him
different now?

1381
01:17:02,879 --> 01:17:06,403
I am looking at him

1382
01:17:06,404 --> 01:17:09,842
no differently than
I ever saw him.

1383
01:17:12,628 --> 01:17:15,673
That hasn't changed in my view

1384
01:17:15,674 --> 01:17:17,371
at all.

1385
01:17:19,112 --> 01:17:21,374
But there's a whole side
of him you never knew.

1386
01:17:21,375 --> 01:17:24,291
No, but that's a new
side to get to know.

1387
01:17:27,338 --> 01:17:29,166
How do you think you're gonna
get to know that side?

1388
01:17:29,645 --> 01:17:30,949
Well, the only
way to get to know

1389
01:17:30,950 --> 01:17:33,736
that person is to
go and visit him.

1390
01:17:35,172 --> 01:17:37,565
Do you have any interest
to get to know that person?

1391
01:17:38,436 --> 01:17:40,045
Um...

1392
01:17:40,046 --> 01:17:44,224
from a psychological
standpoint, yes.

1393
01:17:54,365 --> 01:17:55,583
You didn't?

1394
01:17:57,324 --> 01:17:59,762
Oh, okay, well, I--

1395
01:18:01,677 --> 01:18:03,461
I would like to say good night.

1396
01:18:35,319 --> 01:18:37,102
It is the understanding of
the District Attorney's Office

1397
01:18:37,103 --> 01:18:39,017
that the defendant
will plead guilty

1398
01:18:39,018 --> 01:18:40,932
to seven counts
in the indictment.

1399
01:18:40,933 --> 01:18:42,629
The defendant further agrees

1400
01:18:42,630 --> 01:18:45,545
that, although he has not
been charged with this crime,

1401
01:18:45,546 --> 01:18:47,504
he will admit, as
part of his plea,

1402
01:18:47,505 --> 01:18:48,897
that he intentionally caused

1403
01:18:48,898 --> 01:18:51,552
the death of Karen Vergata
in 1996.

1404
01:18:52,249 --> 01:18:54,076
To summarize the
foregoing sentence,

1405
01:18:54,077 --> 01:18:55,381
the defendant agrees

1406
01:18:55,382 --> 01:18:57,862
to serve three
consecutive life sentences

1407
01:18:57,863 --> 01:18:59,995
without the
possibility of parole

1408
01:18:59,996 --> 01:19:01,866
regarding counts
one through three,

1409
01:19:01,867 --> 01:19:03,868
followed by four
consecutive sentences

1410
01:19:03,869 --> 01:19:06,828
of 25 years'
imprisonment to life

1411
01:19:06,829 --> 01:19:08,395
to run consecutive
to one another.

1412
01:19:14,619 --> 01:19:15,707
Yes, your Honor.

1413
01:19:18,754 --> 01:19:19,798
Yes.

1414
01:19:20,973 --> 01:19:22,582
We have some
breaking news for you.

1415
01:19:22,583 --> 01:19:25,629
A decades-long mystery has
finally come to an end today.

1416
01:19:25,630 --> 01:19:27,980
Rex Heuermann
has pleaded guilty.

1417
01:19:46,520 --> 01:19:48,478
How did you not
see what he was?

1418
01:19:48,479 --> 01:19:51,786
How did you not see
what he had done?

1419
01:19:51,787 --> 01:19:52,787
You were living with him.

1420
01:19:52,788 --> 01:19:54,179
Sir, sir, sir,

1421
01:19:54,180 --> 01:19:55,528
the District Attorney's Office
has thoroughly,

1422
01:19:55,529 --> 01:19:57,748
thoroughly investigated
these crimes, okay?

1423
01:19:57,749 --> 01:19:59,271
It has been proven--

1424
01:19:59,272 --> 01:20:00,838
You were living in the
same house with him.

1425
01:20:00,839 --> 01:20:02,405
We've answered this
a thousand times, okay?

1426
01:20:02,406 --> 01:20:04,799
Asa? Asa?

1427
01:20:04,800 --> 01:20:06,322
Yeah, that's it.
There's no questions.

1428
01:20:06,323 --> 01:20:07,585
Thank you.

1429
01:20:21,599 --> 01:20:23,861
<i>This defendant
walked among us,</i>

1430
01:20:23,862 --> 01:20:26,646
<i>playacting as a
normal suburban dad,</i>

1431
01:20:26,647 --> 01:20:28,779
when in reality, all along,

1432
01:20:28,780 --> 01:20:31,914
he was obsessively targeting
innocent women for death.

1433
01:20:36,092 --> 01:20:37,788
<i>And while we in law enforcement,</i>

1434
01:20:37,789 --> 01:20:39,964
<i>as well as our Suffolk
County citizens,</i>

1435
01:20:39,965 --> 01:20:42,880
<i>mourn the loss of these victims,</i>

1436
01:20:42,881 --> 01:20:45,535
<i>we are also grateful to
them and to their families,</i>

1437
01:20:45,536 --> 01:20:47,145
<i>because, without them,</i>

1438
01:20:47,146 --> 01:20:50,322
<i>this defendant would have
never been brought to justice</i>

1439
01:20:50,323 --> 01:20:53,326
<i>and would still be
walking amongst us.</i>

1440
01:20:55,241 --> 01:20:58,635
To Maureen, the promise
I made to you so long ago

1441
01:20:58,636 --> 01:21:00,638
was simple.

1442
01:21:00,986 --> 01:21:02,421
Sorry.

1443
01:21:02,422 --> 01:21:05,337
I would never stop searching
for justice for you

1444
01:21:05,338 --> 01:21:07,339
through every year,
every setback,

1445
01:21:07,340 --> 01:21:10,690
every...

1446
01:21:10,691 --> 01:21:12,954
every unanswered question.

1447
01:21:12,955 --> 01:21:14,390
I carried you with me,

1448
01:21:14,391 --> 01:21:16,174
and I kept that promise,

1449
01:21:16,175 --> 01:21:18,263
and today it has been done.

1450
01:21:18,264 --> 01:21:20,613
Justice has finally
found its way to you.

1451
01:21:20,614 --> 01:21:22,485
<i>Your voice was never silenced,</i>

1452
01:21:22,486 --> 01:21:24,182
<i>your story never forgotten,</i>

1453
01:21:24,183 --> 01:21:25,880
<i>and your life will always mean</i>

1454
01:21:25,881 --> 01:21:27,838
<i>more than the tragedy
that took you.</i>

1455
01:21:27,839 --> 01:21:29,709
This moment is not the end

1456
01:21:29,710 --> 01:21:32,277
but a reminder
that love endures,

1457
01:21:32,278 --> 01:21:33,496
truth prevails,

1458
01:21:33,497 --> 01:21:35,324
and hope never fades

1459
01:21:35,325 --> 01:21:37,326
because even in
the darkest moments,

1460
01:21:37,327 --> 01:21:39,502
justice will find its way.

1461
01:21:39,503 --> 01:21:40,591
Thank you.

1462
01:21:55,301 --> 01:21:56,955
<i>This whole basement
looks very different.</i>

1463
01:22:06,095 --> 01:22:09,098
<i>It's been completely
gutted and redone.</i>

1464
01:22:10,316 --> 01:22:12,665
<i>New floor, new walls,</i>

1465
01:22:12,666 --> 01:22:14,190
<i>new moldings, new doors.</i>

1466
01:22:29,292 --> 01:22:33,208
The brutal truth is
that Rex Heuermann said

1467
01:22:33,209 --> 01:22:35,602
he dismembered the
bodies in this room.

1468
01:22:37,039 --> 01:22:40,519
That is the brutal truth, okay?

1469
01:22:40,520 --> 01:22:42,869
Now there's me.

1470
01:22:42,870 --> 01:22:44,524
I'm in this room,

1471
01:22:45,656 --> 01:22:48,354
and I'm here because
I do feel spiritual.

1472
01:22:49,616 --> 01:22:53,924
I am trying to say
spiritually, in my own way,

1473
01:22:53,925 --> 01:22:57,537
that I am really sorry

1474
01:22:59,017 --> 01:23:01,498
for what these
victims went through.

1475
01:23:09,419 --> 01:23:13,117
Every night that I go
to bed and go to sleep,

1476
01:23:13,118 --> 01:23:16,382
I am haunted by dreams.

1477
01:23:19,429 --> 01:23:20,734
Every night.

1478
01:23:22,823 --> 01:23:25,695
It will never go away.

1479
01:23:25,696 --> 01:23:29,004
It will follow me for
the rest of my life.

1480
01:23:31,006 --> 01:23:34,965
There will never be
any justice for anyone,

1481
01:23:34,966 --> 01:23:38,317
and there will never be any
way to forget about this.

1482
01:23:45,542 --> 01:23:49,719
I have seen Rex

1483
01:23:49,720 --> 01:23:51,634
about 12 times

1484
01:23:51,635 --> 01:23:53,201
since he confessed to me

1485
01:23:53,202 --> 01:23:56,161
that he actually had dismembered
these bodies down here.

1486
01:23:57,728 --> 01:24:00,948
I want to get to know
this other side of Rex.

1487
01:24:02,515 --> 01:24:05,649
I want to know why Rex
killed these women,

1488
01:24:07,216 --> 01:24:09,435
what his triggers were.

1489
01:24:15,789 --> 01:24:19,184
I'm processing the information
in a very different way

1490
01:24:21,273 --> 01:24:24,276
because now I see
the evil in him.

1491
01:24:48,039 --> 01:24:49,605
<i>Why did you pick her?</i>

1492
01:24:49,606 --> 01:24:51,738
<i>Did she say, "Please, please,"
like, "I have kids?"</i>

1493
01:24:52,957 --> 01:24:55,001
<i>She was just very kind hearted.</i>

1494
01:24:55,002 --> 01:24:56,613
<i>She didn't deserve this.
Nobody deserves this.</i>

1495
01:24:58,005 --> 01:24:59,876
<i>They were all beautiful women.</i>

1496
01:24:59,877 --> 01:25:04,360
<i>They were daughters, sisters,
cousins, nieces, mothers.</i>

1497
01:25:05,448 --> 01:25:06,839
<i>Amber was just a</i>

1498
01:25:06,840 --> 01:25:10,234
<i>beautiful, beautiful,
loving human being,</i>

1499
01:25:10,235 --> 01:25:12,019
<i>and I miss her terribly.</i>

1500
01:25:13,499 --> 01:25:15,500
<i>Jess was somebody that
I looked up to.</i>

1501
01:25:15,501 --> 01:25:17,111
<i>She was a force,</i>

1502
01:25:17,112 --> 01:25:18,982
<i>one of the strongest
women that I know,</i>

1503
01:25:18,983 --> 01:25:20,592
<i>with a heart of gold.</i>

1504
01:25:20,593 --> 01:25:23,553
<i>She was and still is
loved immeasurably.</i>